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The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN.
by tpmx 6y ago
The BankID service seems to trip up many people here.
Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Sweden) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed...
BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID
The banks know the identities (personal identify number) of their customers via their physical offices. BankID offers an app to individuals and an online API to paying/approved third-party services. Third-party services are able to offer BankID authentication in websites and apps. In the end the third party receives an authenticated personal identity number.
There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks.
- smhg 6y agoSame thing happened in Belgium in the last few years where it is called 'Itsme'. Including government openly promoting it in their messaging and services. There is sadly little awareness of it being a private joint venture between banking and telecom. I don't know if it is realistic to expect governments to come up/run this, but when they promote it, I think it should at least be open source.
- NicoJuicy 6y agoI don't think it should be open source. But it's very expensive to integrate it and it's Ogone all over again ( most expensive option = the Belgian one) ~3€ / user/year for the most complete option for ( what is basically) a login verification.
- cambaceres 6y ago> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.
- tpmx 6y agoMy understanding: After the recent money laundering revelations the banks have become relatively strict in accepting/keeping certain customers. I think that most of all the banks are afraid of being blacklisted/sanctioned by the US. This leads to friction and situations where some people are essentially excluded from large parts of society. The banks also don't seem to be all that interested in interacting with their invidual customers in the flesh. I think the natural conclusion of this is that the issuing of electronic IDs becomes a government responsibility, decoupled from banking.
- blfr 6y agoThe banks also don't seem to be all that interested in interacting with their invidual customers in the flesh. The feeling's mutual! I have been using the same bank for over 15 years and only visited once and by accident.
- SahAssar 6y agoWasn't all of those scandals tied to foreign branches of the banks and the strictness has mostly only been applied there? I might be wrong, but I haven't heard of swedish residents being denied banking.
- tpmx 6y ago- 6-9 months ago I started reading online of mostly Swedbank customers who had suddenly been asked to move their monthly salaries to this bank, or they'd lose their accounts. These people were doing stock trading only via Swedbank. - 18 months ago I tried to facilitate creating a corporate bank account managed by a foreign CEO from a non-EU and very first-world country in order to be able to create a Swedish company (AB) with the goal of hiring software people here in Sweden. Tried two banks (SEB and Handelsbanken) before giving up and going another route. My impression is that Swedish banks have tightened up things quite a lot in the past few years.
- SahAssar 6y ago
- JasonFruit 6y ago> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.
- INTPenis 6y agoWhy? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?
- AlecSchueler 6y agoI'm not very much worried about my personal data being collected, what worries me is that when it is pooled with the data of many other individuals the entity who controls that pool will be able to do all sorts of analysis and make all sorts of predictions about behaviours on the small and the mass scale, the benefits of which might allow them to engage, with an advantage, in various fields and with various intentions which cannot be predicted or understood by other entities.
- slt2021 6y agothe actual dystopian future is corporates have so much data they have collected for years that they don't know what to do with it. so the most likely scenario is even if data will be collected on you, nobody will be able to use it in any meaningful way
- jerry1979 6y agoWhy would people not use the data? Would they stop having questions?
- 6y ago
- throwaway4good 6y agoThe Danish parallel to BankId - NemID / MitID is also partly owned by the banking cartel: https://digst.dk/it-loesninger/mitid/partnerskabet/ https://digst.dk/it-loesninger/mitid/partnerskabet/ It is a curious construction; we wouldn't accept a personal id card issued / owned by banks but for the digital equivalent we do so with little debate.
- gerikson 6y agoBanks issued ID cards in Sweden for decades. Source: I worked as a teller and knew the procedure. Passports only became legal IDs in the last decade or so.
- azalemeth 6y agoI just got NemID as a foreigner -- it took me about 4 months of circular references (x is closed because of covid, get it from y; y is shut because of covid -- try x) and a rooting trick on my phone to get the app to work. I am sure that it is nice for the government and the banks having a unified point of sale, but it _really_ took a lot of work to get sorted. I think I prefer the decentralised, less secure, presumably easier to defraud method…
- matsemann 6y agoIn Norway the usual form of ID for anyone without a driving license used to be your debit card. Banks have mostly stopped issuing cards with profile pictures on them now, as they don't want the responsibility. But the national id card has been delayed for a decade. So many now have to bring their passport to buy beer...
- TomatoDash 6y agoShort clip of a customer entering a competing swedish cashless store via BankID app https://youtu.be/Rbm_puP4PgA?t=13 https://youtu.be/Rbm_puP4PgA?t=13 Swedes also use the BankID app for online interactions with health care and other public services. Last year I did my taxes in under 60 seconds. (Get notification; BankID login; check prefilled values from bank, employer etcetera; BankID sign.)
- dheera 6y agoAlso worth noting is that this is not Amazon Go. Customers have to be honest and scan items. We're not civilized enough here in the US for such nice things.
- tpmx 6y agoI'm not so sure it's a matter of civilization - it's more a matter of infrastructure: The other piece of the puzzle is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority Basically the government runs debt collection in Sweden. They have the ability to withdraw money from your bank account. All of this is enabled by every resident having a (public) personal identity number.
- plumeria 6y agoMeanwhile in California people can steal from physical stores with impunity [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/HmOIQv0yu-U?t=480 https://youtu.be/HmOIQv0yu-U?t=480
- subsaharancoder 6y agoCalifornia classifies this as "crimes of necessity" with zero repercussions and in many cases people defending the acts of lawlessness. In CA everything is upside down!!
- panopticon 6y agoThis is a pretty common practice throughout the US. Some big chain retail stores will even fire employees if they try to confront a suspected thief. It's generally cheaper to call the cops and file an insurance claim than it is to deal with worker's comp or lawsuits if something goes sideways.
- blueblisters 6y agoGovernment run debt collection? Is this widely used by companies? Are there any drawbacks/cases of misuse? Does the government keep a credit score too?
- opayen 6y agoIt's also worth noting that BankID requires access location permission access (at least on Android).
- xmodem 6y agoOn iOS it's optional with the explanation, "Increase your BankID security by allowing location." Yeah, nah. I've always had it turned off, never had an issue.
- edb_123 6y agoWait - BankID requires an Android or iOS app in Sweden? Sounds cumbersome. Here in Norway BankID is a SIM application that follows your SIM card regardless of OS or if you swap your phone. So you could basically stick your SIM in a stone age cell phone and still use your BankID.
- rightbyte 6y ago> Wait - BankID requires an Android or iOS app No you can use it on a PC too.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- hashmush 6y agoI never have location services turned on and use bankid all the time. On Android.
- jariel 6y agoIt would be a good idea to remove the 'date' from the number. Edit: because having your birthday right there as part of common ID number is an obvious transgression of privacy that wasn't probably thought of back when the number was established. How anyone could disagree with this is beyond me.
- alvarlagerlof 6y agoI've thought of this too. I cannot come up with any practical reason for it.
- jariel 6y agoThe practicality is uniqueness of the ID. So date+increment is an easy 'citizen UUID'. In 1970 it makes perfect sense in 2020 not so much.
- dalys 6y agoWell it makes it pretty easy to remember. Never heard of anyone complaining about their birthday being known, so it seems to work pretty well.
- jariel 6y agoDo people really have a hard time remembering their phone numbers, which are relatively private? Having one's date of birth signalled to the world is an obvious breach of privacy in the modern age, and since there is obviously no need for it, it shouldn't be used. That you have 'never heard of a concern' not hugelry if there are obviously people who are going to take umbrage - moreover - in this new information world order it can be used for all sorts of shady reasons. There's clearly no need of it. If the scheme were designed today, there's a 0% chance of DOB being used in the number.
- hannob 6y agoPractical question: Does this mean as a foreigner you cannot use these shops? I know from trips to sweden that a lot of people use a custom payment system called swish that only exists in sweden, but I never had trouble paying with a visa card (with cash is sometimes a problem in sweden).
- tpmx 6y agoYou probably can't, at least not in the first iteration. I suspect they might be forced to accept credit cards eventually, because of EU legislation.