5 ms·

lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of

by nimp 6y ago

lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of lateral thinking to imagine a world where western notation isn't king. I can think of heaps of examples where western notation absolutely isn't used- tabla bol, gamelan, zither/guqin/guzhen, indian classical music, just to name a few (and without being even slightly exhaustive). Western notation absolutely is used throughout the world but you can't say at all that it's used more than traditional notation systems because it's usually irrelevant for tuning systems- shruti in indian classical, for example- or rhythmic structures. I would be curious as to how exactly you can say with any certainty that it's more likely that people use western notation, seeing as it's categorically not true, even if we're not touching on the vast numbers of people who participate in oral traditions, either. I've also rarely worked session musicians who aren't orchestral who use anything other than charts and an enormous amount of the music we consume in the west is produced in a DAW or whatever without ever touching notation...

Kye 6y ago
There's a very good video on the way too narrow view many people in the west have of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA I know the title will set people off in a place like this, but it's not a 2014 Tumblr-level "kill white people" style analysis. Totally worth the time.
- qmmmur 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing this. I forgot about it but have watched it and it's quite a striking video for Adam Neely who usually covers jazz-bro harmonic complexity wank.
- BuildTheRobots 6y ago
  That was a great video. Extremely well researched, very engaging, fantastic production quality and eye opening. Thank you for sharing.
coldtea 6y ago
>lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of lateral thinking to imagine a world where western notation isn't king. Well, if you felt the need to "lol", let me LOL back at you :-) No PhD, but as someone with years of music training, who has travelled all over the world, and with a couple of professional musicians in the family, coming from a country with its own ancient music notation and millenia of musical history, and who has non-western modes and tradition, I can't even imagine the pedantry of your comment. Musicians all over the world: (a) playing westernized music (which covers about most of the charts everywhere, from Asia to Latin America and Africa), and western music directly (b) playing western music directly (classical, jazz, rock, blues, etc) (c) playing other genres with traditional western notation and even influences (tango, samba, and so on) deal predominantly with western music theory, notation, and instruments -- and which cover a huge chunk of global musicians. But (d) even traditional "folk" (ethnic) musicans adapt to westernized versions of local music, with few exceptions, and use standard western notations (or notation hacks, like tablature and chord charts) in the studio and the concerts. Heck, our traditional music is modal and microtonal, but it's mostly translated and played in your run of the mill western scales and keys. And I've seen the same all around the world. You might have in mind places like India, China, Indonesia, etc, but still most pros will use western style music theory and write with western notation than not. To the point that the exceptions are more folkore than actual every-day chart music. >I've also rarely worked session musicians who aren't orchestral who use anything other than charts and an enormous amount of the music we consume in the west is produced in a DAW or whatever without ever touching notation... Which is neither here, nor there. The Nashville number system, for example or a piano roll is still based on western music theory and norms (even if not notation), and those musician will still 99% use the typical major/minor/etc scales. The problem with a deep knowledge of musicology in this regard is that it makes it very easy to lose the forrest for the trees, and e.g. know 1000s of local / oral etc traditions, etc, but not see that those are nonetheless niche and very much not the norm in the day to day music of a country, and difficult to even find in the radio/charts in most countries. The rest are as representative as e.g. jazz is in 2021 US musical tastes, charts, sales, and so on...
- nimp 6y ago

by nimp 6y ago

Kye 6y ago

There's a very good video on the way too narrow view many people in the west have of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA I know the title will set people off in a place like this, but it's not a 2014 Tumblr-level "kill white people" style analysis. Totally worth the time.

qmmmur 6y ago
Thanks for sharing this. I forgot about it but have watched it and it's quite a striking video for Adam Neely who usually covers jazz-bro harmonic complexity wank.
BuildTheRobots 6y ago
That was a great video. Extremely well researched, very engaging, fantastic production quality and eye opening. Thank you for sharing.

coldtea 6y ago

>lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of lateral thinking to imagine a world where western notation isn't king. Well, if you felt the need to "lol", let me LOL back at you :-) No PhD, but as someone with years of music training, who has travelled all over the world, and with a couple of professional musicians in the family, coming from a country with its own ancient music notation and millenia of musical history, and who has non-western modes and tradition, I can't even imagine the pedantry of your comment. Musicians all over the world: (a) playing westernized music (which covers about most of the charts everywhere, from Asia to Latin America and Africa), and western music directly (b) playing western music directly (classical, jazz, rock, blues, etc) (c) playing other genres with traditional western notation and even influences (tango, samba, and so on) deal predominantly with western music theory, notation, and instruments -- and which cover a huge chunk of global musicians. But (d) even traditional "folk" (ethnic) musicans adapt to westernized versions of local music, with few exceptions, and use standard western notations (or notation hacks, like tablature and chord charts) in the studio and the concerts. Heck, our traditional music is modal and microtonal, but it's mostly translated and played in your run of the mill western scales and keys. And I've seen the same all around the world. You might have in mind places like India, China, Indonesia, etc, but still most pros will use western style music theory and write with western notation than not. To the point that the exceptions are more folkore than actual every-day chart music. >I've also rarely worked session musicians who aren't orchestral who use anything other than charts and an enormous amount of the music we consume in the west is produced in a DAW or whatever without ever touching notation... Which is neither here, nor there. The Nashville number system, for example or a piano roll is still based on western music theory and norms (even if not notation), and those musician will still 99% use the typical major/minor/etc scales. The problem with a deep knowledge of musicology in this regard is that it makes it very easy to lose the forrest for the trees, and e.g. know 1000s of local / oral etc traditions, etc, but not see that those are nonetheless niche and very much not the norm in the day to day music of a country, and difficult to even find in the radio/charts in most countries. The rest are as representative as e.g. jazz is in 2021 US musical tastes, charts, sales, and so on...

nimp 6y ago