8 ms·

Hm do we need to bring male adulthood ritual back?

adolph 6y ago
Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/18th-Brumaire.pdf https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/18t...
- jplr8922 6y ago
  Excuse me, but I'm very unfamiliar with marxist theory beyond the big points. I also think its unfair to reply a 1 line question with a full book. Would you mind being a bit more verbose in order to share your insights?
  - jfengel 6y ago
    It appears only to be about citing the history of the "history repeats itself" cliche in the first footnote. It's sometimes attributed to Marx, who attributes it to Hegel. Other than that I don't think they intended to reference Marxism, but only to provide a source for the quote.
ta988 6y ago
no
- jplr8922 6y ago
  Clear answer. Do you mind sharing why? As an example, is there any difference to you betwen Manhood Ritual and hazing, or do you consider it to be the same?
  - ta988 6y ago
    Because not all men want to be identified as whatever is recognized as manhood in those rituals. The question is more what would be the need in society and why it would have to be gendered at all? I'm all for more symbolism and rituals that enhance one's inclusion in society though.
    - jplr8922 6y ago
      Well its up to us to define these symbols, and make certain that 1) most males would be ok to be identified with them and 2) to make alternatives for those who don't. In my experience its more a continum than a binary thing. Why do we need society to be gendered? Very good question. Masculine and Feminine symbols are found in the majority of cultures, because they allow its people to build an identity and act act on it. We are not stone age people anymore, but even 'advanced' western societies have demographic constrains to deal with. I would also note that most biological men are at advantage in situations where physical strength is a factor. I do want the majority of males and females to behave differently in a myriad of situations. Of course I do not think that every symbols should be feminine and masculine, and my goal is not to push some archaic-conservative agenda. However I have lots of doubts about the gender-bender-for-all thing. People kill their kings when they dont know how to kill their gods.
user-the-name 6y ago
You read this, and your takeaway is "what we need is more rape and theft"?
- jplr8922 6y ago
  This is a very literal understanding of my comment, it almost sound like a strawman. Of course I do not mean 'theft and rape'. I'm fully aware that the world changed since Indo-European barbarism. The thing is, culture evolved faster than nature. The underlying reasons for this 'manhood ritual' are probably not strictly economic. Are you the type of person who can't understand why Jordan Peterson and all are so popular with young men, without wanting to deal the underlying tendencies which caused their popularity in the first place? What is your perspective on manhood in 2021? What should young men aspire to? How should we deal with our old symbols of virility, and how can we replace them to the benefits of all?
literallycancer 6y ago
YOLO stock market plays are the 2021 version.

Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/18th-Brumaire.pdf https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/18t...

jplr8922 6y ago
Excuse me, but I'm very unfamiliar with marxist theory beyond the big points. I also think its unfair to reply a 1 line question with a full book. Would you mind being a bit more verbose in order to share your insights?
- jfengel 6y ago
  It appears only to be about citing the history of the "history repeats itself" cliche in the first footnote. It's sometimes attributed to Marx, who attributes it to Hegel. Other than that I don't think they intended to reference Marxism, but only to provide a source for the quote.

ta988 6y ago

jplr8922 6y ago
Clear answer. Do you mind sharing why? As an example, is there any difference to you betwen Manhood Ritual and hazing, or do you consider it to be the same?
- ta988 6y ago
  Because not all men want to be identified as whatever is recognized as manhood in those rituals. The question is more what would be the need in society and why it would have to be gendered at all? I'm all for more symbolism and rituals that enhance one's inclusion in society though.
  - jplr8922 6y ago
    Well its up to us to define these symbols, and make certain that 1) most males would be ok to be identified with them and 2) to make alternatives for those who don't. In my experience its more a continum than a binary thing. Why do we need society to be gendered? Very good question. Masculine and Feminine symbols are found in the majority of cultures, because they allow its people to build an identity and act act on it. We are not stone age people anymore, but even 'advanced' western societies have demographic constrains to deal with. I would also note that most biological men are at advantage in situations where physical strength is a factor. I do want the majority of males and females to behave differently in a myriad of situations. Of course I do not think that every symbols should be feminine and masculine, and my goal is not to push some archaic-conservative agenda. However I have lots of doubts about the gender-bender-for-all thing. People kill their kings when they dont know how to kill their gods.

user-the-name 6y ago

You read this, and your takeaway is "what we need is more rape and theft"?

jplr8922 6y ago
This is a very literal understanding of my comment, it almost sound like a strawman. Of course I do not mean 'theft and rape'. I'm fully aware that the world changed since Indo-European barbarism. The thing is, culture evolved faster than nature. The underlying reasons for this 'manhood ritual' are probably not strictly economic. Are you the type of person who can't understand why Jordan Peterson and all are so popular with young men, without wanting to deal the underlying tendencies which caused their popularity in the first place? What is your perspective on manhood in 2021? What should young men aspire to? How should we deal with our old symbols of virility, and how can we replace them to the benefits of all?

literallycancer 6y ago

YOLO stock market plays are the 2021 version.