6 ms·

So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? And if you steal, you will eventually get caught on video and be blocked from entering the store? I can imagi

So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? And if you steal, you will eventually get caught on video and be blocked from entering the store? I can imagine this working well in small villages. You'll get a few thieves and vandals, but eventually you can weed them out. Pretty genius.

lbhdc 6y ago
Not quite. They have your ID and banking information when you enter. You open the doors using the company's app, which works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks.
- konschubert 6y ago
  Of course they have a way to identify you and prevent you from signing up again under another name. How else are they going to block you? But just because they have your BankID it doesn't mean that they have your account balance or other banking data, if that's what you're referring to.
  - Grustaf 6y ago
    Stealing is still a crime, so there is no need to have direct access to your account. At the very least you would owe the store for what you stole, just like if you're late on an electricity bill. You essentially can't escape that without emigrating.
    - kalleboo 6y ago
      I want to add a note to people who aren't familiar - Sweden has a government debt collector[0]. Unlike the US where I'l told you can mostly dodge private debts and it just becomes a massive nuisance and credit nightmare, in Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority
      - Dma54rhs 6y ago
        I believe it's also called court bailiff and is fairly usual thing in the EU.
      - mytailorisrich 6y ago
        > Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts.* It's called "attachment of earnings" in the UK there is no special agency for that, it's just a court order sent to the debtor employer. This also exists in most US states, I believe it's often called "wage garnishment" there. Repossession or seizure of property also exists in the US and the UK (and indeed most countries). Here in the UK there's even a TV show about that, with the cool name of "The Sheriffs are coming"...
bellyfullofbac 6y ago
And you have to scan your bank card (which apparently in Sweden is a secondary ID card) to enter. I wonder if they do an extra verification to make sure you just didn't steal someone's card, maybe with a PIN? Hah, I guess for the vandals, being blacklisted by the network would be a big hassle...
- olodus 6y ago
  I haven't used the stores themselves but they reference using BankId which is an national identification app on your phone you link to your bank account that also requires a pin code.
- paganel 6y ago
  I wonder what will the non-banked people do in the future? Their life is in many cases miserable enough as it is, not being able to purchase basic groceries because you don't have a credit/debit card is next-level capitalist dystopia.
  - henhouse 6y ago
    A lot of Sweden is already like this. They're a super cashless society currently. I have only lived in Stockholm, but a large number of places will not accept cash in any form. This is done for security and convenience reasons, and most Swedes from what I have seen seem to prefer and like this method. It definitely has implications of course... but none that seem to be bothering the masses. Here's some info about it: https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society
  - eythian 6y ago
    In some countries, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden is one of them, it's a requirement that you be allowed to have a bank account. You can't be refused.
    - paganel 6y ago
      That’s very good to hear, from where I’m from (Eastern Europe) a bank account is very heavily linked to a current physical address (as in, you must have a physical address officially attached to your name which in itself is a quite cumbersome process) and oftentimes with an additional proof (like an utilities bill on your name attached to that address). That makes getting a bank account a little difficult for many people.
eCa 6y ago
> So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? No, from the OP: > works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks You are identified, so it should be easy to see on camera who steals and then they can send the cops on you. My worry is more about tourists[1]. As someone who has travelled extensively in rural Europe I would not appreciate a growing network of stores that requires country-specific id. [1] Technologically disadvantaged people are already mentioned in the article.
- mpclark 6y ago
  Spot on. I remember trying to get petrol in Belgium at night sometime in the late 90s. The country had its own smart debit card programme (very leading edge) and garages there had unattended pumps that would accept these cards to cater for out-of-hours customers. But, being a UK tourist without a local payment card, I was stuffed. Stopped at every garage along the way, getting increasingly concerned, before coasting in on fumes to one that was actually open all night and would accept my Visa or MC.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    I've had that last summer driving through Germany - stopped to charge my car, only to discover that all charging stations at that particular Auobahn station will only accept a German-issued[0] debit or credit cards. As a tourist....tough luck I guess? [0]I knew it because of course you had to use an app to start charging, and the app had a pre-filled and unchangable country set to Germany for billing details.
    - jfk13 6y ago
      I had that problem with rail tickets in Germany, too... stations with machines that would only accept the local kind of bank card, not my Visa card. Weirdly, at the main station in Bochum (for example), there were some machines that would accept a Visa card - but even the staff in the in-person ticket office seemed to be completely ignorant of this. (And no, they wouldn't accept my card there, either. But eventually - no thanks to DB's staff - I found a machine I could use.) Let's just say I wasn't impressed.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dhimes 6y ago
My grocery store has a self-scan and checkout that works on trust basis with random audits. Some stores had to get rid of it because of stealing, but thankfully mine has kept it. I find it very fast and don't mind the occasional audits at all. Small price to pay, and still faster than if I had stayed in line.
- tasogare 6y ago
  The value the self-scan systems have for the shop owners is not in automation but the fact the work is reported on customer, with of course no price reduction. That should be forbidden. I boycott those systems and wait for the human clerk to do his job, this way a little of the money made by the shop is redistributed.
  - msh 6y ago
    I would rather do it my self for very little extra time use, rather than waste even more time waiting in line.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      For me it depends. If I have a shopping cart full, including typically, a bunch of produce, I'll go to a cashier. If I've got a half dozen bar coded items to scan, I'll probably just do self-checkout.
      - msh 6y ago
        Some shops have scan yourself where you scan things with your phone when putting them in your basket, even produce then have a barcode, maybe not on the item but then at a sign at their location.
        ghaff 6y ago
        I've never seen that in the US and produce isn't barcoded unless it's shrink-wrapped--which it isn't in most stores. And I'm not sure that seems any easier than a normal self-checkout in any case.
jjcon 6y ago
I kinda see this as the next step after self checkout - conventional wisdom was that there would be too much theft and I think there is slightly more (intentional or accidental) but it is more than offset by the fact that you can pay just one employee and run 8 checkout lines
chrisseaton 6y ago
Do you not have road-side produce honesty stands where you live? It's no different to that.
- konschubert 6y ago
  No, this is different, because they can block you.

lbhdc 6y ago

Not quite. They have your ID and banking information when you enter. You open the doors using the company's app, which works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks.

konschubert 6y ago
Of course they have a way to identify you and prevent you from signing up again under another name. How else are they going to block you? But just because they have your BankID it doesn't mean that they have your account balance or other banking data, if that's what you're referring to.
- Grustaf 6y ago
  Stealing is still a crime, so there is no need to have direct access to your account. At the very least you would owe the store for what you stole, just like if you're late on an electricity bill. You essentially can't escape that without emigrating.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    I want to add a note to people who aren't familiar - Sweden has a government debt collector[0]. Unlike the US where I'l told you can mostly dodge private debts and it just becomes a massive nuisance and credit nightmare, in Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority
    - Dma54rhs 6y ago
      I believe it's also called court bailiff and is fairly usual thing in the EU.
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      > Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts.* It's called "attachment of earnings" in the UK there is no special agency for that, it's just a court order sent to the debtor employer. This also exists in most US states, I believe it's often called "wage garnishment" there. Repossession or seizure of property also exists in the US and the UK (and indeed most countries). Here in the UK there's even a TV show about that, with the cool name of "The Sheriffs are coming"...

bellyfullofbac 6y ago

And you have to scan your bank card (which apparently in Sweden is a secondary ID card) to enter. I wonder if they do an extra verification to make sure you just didn't steal someone's card, maybe with a PIN? Hah, I guess for the vandals, being blacklisted by the network would be a big hassle...

olodus 6y ago
I haven't used the stores themselves but they reference using BankId which is an national identification app on your phone you link to your bank account that also requires a pin code.
paganel 6y ago
I wonder what will the non-banked people do in the future? Their life is in many cases miserable enough as it is, not being able to purchase basic groceries because you don't have a credit/debit card is next-level capitalist dystopia.
- henhouse 6y ago
  A lot of Sweden is already like this. They're a super cashless society currently. I have only lived in Stockholm, but a large number of places will not accept cash in any form. This is done for security and convenience reasons, and most Swedes from what I have seen seem to prefer and like this method. It definitely has implications of course... but none that seem to be bothering the masses. Here's some info about it: https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society
- eythian 6y ago
  In some countries, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden is one of them, it's a requirement that you be allowed to have a bank account. You can't be refused.
  - paganel 6y ago
    That’s very good to hear, from where I’m from (Eastern Europe) a bank account is very heavily linked to a current physical address (as in, you must have a physical address officially attached to your name which in itself is a quite cumbersome process) and oftentimes with an additional proof (like an utilities bill on your name attached to that address). That makes getting a bank account a little difficult for many people.

eCa 6y ago

> So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? No, from the OP: > works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks You are identified, so it should be easy to see on camera who steals and then they can send the cops on you. My worry is more about tourists[1]. As someone who has travelled extensively in rural Europe I would not appreciate a growing network of stores that requires country-specific id. [1] Technologically disadvantaged people are already mentioned in the article.

mpclark 6y ago
Spot on. I remember trying to get petrol in Belgium at night sometime in the late 90s. The country had its own smart debit card programme (very leading edge) and garages there had unattended pumps that would accept these cards to cater for out-of-hours customers. But, being a UK tourist without a local payment card, I was stuffed. Stopped at every garage along the way, getting increasingly concerned, before coasting in on fumes to one that was actually open all night and would accept my Visa or MC.
- gambiting 6y ago
  I've had that last summer driving through Germany - stopped to charge my car, only to discover that all charging stations at that particular Auobahn station will only accept a German-issued[0] debit or credit cards. As a tourist....tough luck I guess? [0]I knew it because of course you had to use an app to start charging, and the app had a pre-filled and unchangable country set to Germany for billing details.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    I had that problem with rail tickets in Germany, too... stations with machines that would only accept the local kind of bank card, not my Visa card. Weirdly, at the main station in Bochum (for example), there were some machines that would accept a Visa card - but even the staff in the in-person ticket office seemed to be completely ignorant of this. (And no, they wouldn't accept my card there, either. But eventually - no thanks to DB's staff - I found a machine I could use.) Let's just say I wasn't impressed.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dhimes 6y ago

My grocery store has a self-scan and checkout that works on trust basis with random audits. Some stores had to get rid of it because of stealing, but thankfully mine has kept it. I find it very fast and don't mind the occasional audits at all. Small price to pay, and still faster than if I had stayed in line.

tasogare 6y ago
The value the self-scan systems have for the shop owners is not in automation but the fact the work is reported on customer, with of course no price reduction. That should be forbidden. I boycott those systems and wait for the human clerk to do his job, this way a little of the money made by the shop is redistributed.
- msh 6y ago
  I would rather do it my self for very little extra time use, rather than waste even more time waiting in line.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    For me it depends. If I have a shopping cart full, including typically, a bunch of produce, I'll go to a cashier. If I've got a half dozen bar coded items to scan, I'll probably just do self-checkout.
    - msh 6y ago
      Some shops have scan yourself where you scan things with your phone when putting them in your basket, even produce then have a barcode, maybe not on the item but then at a sign at their location.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        I've never seen that in the US and produce isn't barcoded unless it's shrink-wrapped--which it isn't in most stores. And I'm not sure that seems any easier than a normal self-checkout in any case.

jjcon 6y ago

I kinda see this as the next step after self checkout - conventional wisdom was that there would be too much theft and I think there is slightly more (intentional or accidental) but it is more than offset by the fact that you can pay just one employee and run 8 checkout lines

chrisseaton 6y ago

Do you not have road-side produce honesty stands where you live? It's no different to that.

konschubert 6y ago
No, this is different, because they can block you.