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I don't understand your comment - there have been many policy interventions that have changed coal consumption in the UK in the last 100 years. There is a large

by sgt101 6y ago

I don't understand your comment - there have been many policy interventions that have changed coal consumption in the UK in the last 100 years. There is a large amount of coal still available for mining in the uk - but lack of demand and low prices coupled with high extraction costs have destroyed the industry. - The clean air act made it illegal to burn many forms of coal and required coal producers to use higher standards. Many areas were banned from coal burning of any sort. This drove the adoption of gas central heating. - Safety measures introduced after many mining tragedies drove up the costs of the industry significantly. - The attack on organised labour in the 1980's resulted in the shuttering of large parts of the UK coal industry. - The development of the EU single market drove the importation of cheap coal from Germany and Poland, dealing a further blow to the domestic industry. - Many initiatives on home insulation driving down utilization. But you may be making a point I just haven't understood - can you clarify?

roenxi 6y ago
They've been in a steady linear downtrend of coal production for more than a century. Then stopped producing the stuff roughly on schedule for a prediction made in 1970 or 1980. Occam's razor here is they stopped producing coal because they ran out of coal, rather than because of any political will. > There is a large amount of coal still available for mining in the uk - but lack of demand and low prices coupled with high extraction costs have destroyed the industry. That is what running out of coal looks like. Based on the 100 year trendline, Occam's razor is they can't sustain their lifestyle using coal. It wouldn't surprise me if they struggled even with new forms, their energy use figures [0] are eye watering. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#Overview https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#O...
- T-A 6y ago
  > they stopped producing coal because they ran out of coal "The UK has identified hard coal resources of 3 910 million tonnes, although total resources could be as large as 187 billion tonnes." https://euracoal.eu/info/country-profiles/united-kingdom/ https://euracoal.eu/info/country-profiles/united-kingdom/
- sgt101 6y ago
  I don't get this - is the reduction in energy consumption per head a bad thing in your eyes? And occam's razor states "the simplest theory that fits the evidence" there is extensive evidence that the UK has large reserves of coal and could have continued to exploit them for many decades. However, for political reasons it didn't.
blippage 6y ago
> The attack on organised labour in the 1980's resulted in the shuttering of large parts of the UK coal industry. My understanding is that Thatcher closed down coal because production was uneconomical and she didn't want government coffers propping it up. Your use of the word "attack" is emotionally charged, as if Thatcher was just doing it for evil lulz.
- sgt101 6y ago
  >My understanding is that Thatcher closed down coal because production was uneconomical and she didn't want government coffers propping it up. Your use of the word "attack" is emotionally charged, as if Thatcher was just doing it for evil lulz. I don't think she was doing for "evil lulz" but it was clearly an attack, the government developed the "Ridley Plan" some years before to prevent and curtail the power of organised labour in the UK. The motivation for this was the capitulation of the Heath Government to the NUM in 1972 and the fear of the use of strike action as a military weapon by the Soviet Union - the British Unions had extensive ties to the Soviets. The industry wasn't uneconomic but the installation and development of subsidized oil and nuclear plants and the willingness of the British to import coal made uncompetitive. There was a prospect of another 50 or 70 years of deepmined coal for Britain - a highly undesirable prospect, but there is an alternative universe in which the NUM won and we would be trying to deal with this now.

by sgt101 6y ago

roenxi 6y ago

They've been in a steady linear downtrend of coal production for more than a century. Then stopped producing the stuff roughly on schedule for a prediction made in 1970 or 1980. Occam's razor here is they stopped producing coal because they ran out of coal, rather than because of any political will. > There is a large amount of coal still available for mining in the uk - but lack of demand and low prices coupled with high extraction costs have destroyed the industry. That is what running out of coal looks like. Based on the 100 year trendline, Occam's razor is they can't sustain their lifestyle using coal. It wouldn't surprise me if they struggled even with new forms, their energy use figures [0] are eye watering. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#Overview https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#O...

T-A 6y ago
> they stopped producing coal because they ran out of coal "The UK has identified hard coal resources of 3 910 million tonnes, although total resources could be as large as 187 billion tonnes." https://euracoal.eu/info/country-profiles/united-kingdom/ https://euracoal.eu/info/country-profiles/united-kingdom/
sgt101 6y ago
I don't get this - is the reduction in energy consumption per head a bad thing in your eyes? And occam's razor states "the simplest theory that fits the evidence" there is extensive evidence that the UK has large reserves of coal and could have continued to exploit them for many decades. However, for political reasons it didn't.

blippage 6y ago

> The attack on organised labour in the 1980's resulted in the shuttering of large parts of the UK coal industry. My understanding is that Thatcher closed down coal because production was uneconomical and she didn't want government coffers propping it up. Your use of the word "attack" is emotionally charged, as if Thatcher was just doing it for evil lulz.

sgt101 6y ago
>My understanding is that Thatcher closed down coal because production was uneconomical and she didn't want government coffers propping it up. Your use of the word "attack" is emotionally charged, as if Thatcher was just doing it for evil lulz. I don't think she was doing for "evil lulz" but it was clearly an attack, the government developed the "Ridley Plan" some years before to prevent and curtail the power of organised labour in the UK. The motivation for this was the capitulation of the Heath Government to the NUM in 1972 and the fear of the use of strike action as a military weapon by the Soviet Union - the British Unions had extensive ties to the Soviets. The industry wasn't uneconomic but the installation and development of subsidized oil and nuclear plants and the willingness of the British to import coal made uncompetitive. There was a prospect of another 50 or 70 years of deepmined coal for Britain - a highly undesirable prospect, but there is an alternative universe in which the NUM won and we would be trying to deal with this now.