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I can somewhat relate to you, but in different aspect. I own iPhone and I'm thinking about some home automation. I can program iPhones, I tried to find out some

I can somewhat relate to you, but in different aspect. I own iPhone and I'm thinking about some home automation. I can program iPhones, I tried to find out some way to put my code onto my phone without restrictions and I did not find any. I can use web app, but it's restricted and I might need some API that's not available for web. I can install my development build, but it'll expire in a few days and I don't want to reinstall it over and over again. That's an absurd situation when I'm as a programmer can't put my own program onto my own device. I love iOS in almost every way except sideloading restriction. If I missed some way to implement what I want, I'd love to hear how can I do that. I don't need much, but I need push notifications from server and I need push notifications when I'm close to some particular location (like open a door when I'm near it). I might need NFC push notification, I'm not sure. I don't agree that Android suck, I have second phone for testing and while I love iOS more as it feels more polished, I probably will switch to Android in the future, just because I want to run my code on my device.

navaati 6y ago
It’s frustrating to have to pay, but I think you can shell out something like a 100 bucks to get an Apple developer account and it allows you to install your own code on your own phone. I hope it’s a 100 bucks forever and not once per year… Can someone confirm ?
- DeusExMachina 6y ago
  It's once per year. Source: I have a paid developer account.
  - MrGilbert 6y ago
    But I also need a mac for signing, don't I? Like, a Mac Mini? That's the most annoying part, tbh. I feel fine-ish for paying 8 $ a month for my dev account (if you calculate it that way), but buying additional, expensive hardware? No, not really.
    - vbezhenar 6y ago
      I think that you can rent a mac for a day and do all your signing. Something like https://www.scaleway.com/en/hello-m1/ https://www.scaleway.com/en/hello-m1/
      - cmrdsprklpny 6y ago
        I’ve had the experience that often weird bugs pop up when signing; often it isn’t that simple unfortunately.
    - htrp 6y ago
      AWS has mac minis by the hour (not cheap though)
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  I can pay, but, as I said, my apps will expire in a few days, so I would need to rebuild and reinstall them every day to keep them working. The only way to have non-expiring apps is to submit them to AppStore which is obviously not possible, as it's only for me.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    If you pay your apps will expire once a year rather than once every couple days.
    - vbezhenar 6y ago
      That's very interesting to know. I guess that's an ultimate solution to my problems then, rebuilding once a year is perfectly acceptable.
- Terretta 6y ago
  See my other reply in this same thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26399788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26399788 Long story short, you pay $100/year or $8.33/month for access to a suite of services that make apps frictionless for your users, and easier for you as a developer to offer high end features like authentication, notifications, and sync: - App discovery, hosting, distribution, updates - CloudKit, iCloud Documents, iCloud K/V Store - Push Notifications - Sign-in with Apple - etc. (NFC is also in the list) Details: https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 You do not have to pay anything if you do not want any of those services, however you will have to “refresh” your test app cert weekly or work around that.
capableweb 6y ago
I both hate and love both of Android and iOS. Currently I'm on iOS has the hardware is nicer but damn if the UX isn't confusing and downright dangerous sometimes (looking at you CarPlay). I also looked into getting some of my own programs into my iPhone but rather than getting stuck on not being able to keep it there for a long time, I got stuck on how to even get the program into the phone. Turns out you need Apple hardware to push the code, so I'm stuck before even being able to try it.
Siira 6y ago
All those Apple apologists should go and take a look at the world; I live in Iran, and here Iranian apps just use a business profile to install. There are even alternative app stores using device management profiles. And these apologists keep bullshitting that the monopolist walled garden actually keeps people safe. The walls don’t keep out anyone powerful, they just enforce rents.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  That's surprising as Apple is supposed to revoke those kinds of certificates pretty quickly. Enterprise certificates are for use inside enterprises, not for outer users.
  - naravara 6y ago
    Iran is under embargo by the US. Consequently, Apple doesn't do business in Iran. If someone buys an Apple product in Iran they're getting smuggled hardware that has likely been jailbroken. It won't be connected to anything Apple or iCloud unless they're going through some kind of VPN. Certainly nobody is getting developer certs there and they can't do any payment processing so most regular apps are gonna be out of the question.
    - Siira 6y ago
      Please stop opining on what you have zero knowledge on. The Apple devices in Iran are never sold jailbroken (in fact, I have never seen a jailbroken Apple device in my life). They can usually connect to all the Apple services without a VPN. There are apps that use Iranian payment processors in the App Store itself (e.g., https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fidiketabi/id1464658470 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fidiketabi/id1464658470 is an app that sells ebooks and audiobooks, its real name being Fidibo), and others have apps as direct installs that need the user to accept their profile, or use one of those Iranian app stores. There was a brief period after the Facebook VPN scandal that Apple did make a show of blocking these Iranian certificates, which caused a surge in web apps (which I liked a lot), but that didn’t last long. What is super clear is that Apple gives not a single fuck about privacy, security, US laws, or anything except PR. They do exactly what generates the most money for them, and have no principles. Every single big stunt they have done costed them nothing and further consolidated their monopolies. It is always others who shoulder the costs, never Apple.
hrvTGKFyDyko3aK 6y ago
You can use AltStore to easily sideload apps to your iPhone without a developer account[0]. You only need to be on the same WiFi network as your computer once every 7 days to "refresh" the sideloaded app. [0] https://altstore.io/ https://altstore.io/
Terretta 6y ago
To your point, Apple Developer does not require the $100/year Apple Developer Program fee to load software on your iPhone, but does by default require a weekly cert refresh. However, the $100 is less a permission slip, and more buys you access to Apple services infrastructure that is largely worth the money so you don’t have to do it yourself and so your users can trust a single brand experience. (For example, notifications before Apple’s notification service were insane, the app “Growl” made a lot of money just trying to tame the dozens of different ways confounded users’ expectations with notifications. Similarly, updating apps was crazy-making for users, then there was Sparkle, now you get the app hosting and distribution included in the $8/month.) Just these few services are well worth $8 a month if you compare what you get to any other SaaS we’re buying all the time from HackerNews startups: - App discovery, hosting, distribution, updates - CloudKit, iCloud Documents, iCloud K/V Store - Push Notifications - Sign-in with Apple - etc. (NFC is also in the list) See this link for detailed differences between free Apple Developer and paid Apple Developer Program (also compares Enterprise distribution): https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 Since you specifically mention push notifications which of course require an infrastructure to run reliably for you 24/7, there’s a good value for the $8/month. The systems behind making these “just work” for users are complex and expensive.

navaati 6y ago

It’s frustrating to have to pay, but I think you can shell out something like a 100 bucks to get an Apple developer account and it allows you to install your own code on your own phone. I hope it’s a 100 bucks forever and not once per year… Can someone confirm ?

DeusExMachina 6y ago
It's once per year. Source: I have a paid developer account.
- MrGilbert 6y ago
  But I also need a mac for signing, don't I? Like, a Mac Mini? That's the most annoying part, tbh. I feel fine-ish for paying 8 $ a month for my dev account (if you calculate it that way), but buying additional, expensive hardware? No, not really.
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    I think that you can rent a mac for a day and do all your signing. Something like https://www.scaleway.com/en/hello-m1/ https://www.scaleway.com/en/hello-m1/
    - cmrdsprklpny 6y ago
      I’ve had the experience that often weird bugs pop up when signing; often it isn’t that simple unfortunately.
  - htrp 6y ago
    AWS has mac minis by the hour (not cheap though)
vbezhenar 6y ago
I can pay, but, as I said, my apps will expire in a few days, so I would need to rebuild and reinstall them every day to keep them working. The only way to have non-expiring apps is to submit them to AppStore which is obviously not possible, as it's only for me.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  If you pay your apps will expire once a year rather than once every couple days.
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    That's very interesting to know. I guess that's an ultimate solution to my problems then, rebuilding once a year is perfectly acceptable.
Terretta 6y ago
See my other reply in this same thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26399788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26399788 Long story short, you pay $100/year or $8.33/month for access to a suite of services that make apps frictionless for your users, and easier for you as a developer to offer high end features like authentication, notifications, and sync: - App discovery, hosting, distribution, updates - CloudKit, iCloud Documents, iCloud K/V Store - Push Notifications - Sign-in with Apple - etc. (NFC is also in the list) Details: https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 You do not have to pay anything if you do not want any of those services, however you will have to “refresh” your test app cert weekly or work around that.

capableweb 6y ago

I both hate and love both of Android and iOS. Currently I'm on iOS has the hardware is nicer but damn if the UX isn't confusing and downright dangerous sometimes (looking at you CarPlay). I also looked into getting some of my own programs into my iPhone but rather than getting stuck on not being able to keep it there for a long time, I got stuck on how to even get the program into the phone. Turns out you need Apple hardware to push the code, so I'm stuck before even being able to try it.

Siira 6y ago

All those Apple apologists should go and take a look at the world; I live in Iran, and here Iranian apps just use a business profile to install. There are even alternative app stores using device management profiles. And these apologists keep bullshitting that the monopolist walled garden actually keeps people safe. The walls don’t keep out anyone powerful, they just enforce rents.

vbezhenar 6y ago
That's surprising as Apple is supposed to revoke those kinds of certificates pretty quickly. Enterprise certificates are for use inside enterprises, not for outer users.
- naravara 6y ago
  Iran is under embargo by the US. Consequently, Apple doesn't do business in Iran. If someone buys an Apple product in Iran they're getting smuggled hardware that has likely been jailbroken. It won't be connected to anything Apple or iCloud unless they're going through some kind of VPN. Certainly nobody is getting developer certs there and they can't do any payment processing so most regular apps are gonna be out of the question.
  - Siira 6y ago
    Please stop opining on what you have zero knowledge on. The Apple devices in Iran are never sold jailbroken (in fact, I have never seen a jailbroken Apple device in my life). They can usually connect to all the Apple services without a VPN. There are apps that use Iranian payment processors in the App Store itself (e.g., https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fidiketabi/id1464658470 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fidiketabi/id1464658470 is an app that sells ebooks and audiobooks, its real name being Fidibo), and others have apps as direct installs that need the user to accept their profile, or use one of those Iranian app stores. There was a brief period after the Facebook VPN scandal that Apple did make a show of blocking these Iranian certificates, which caused a surge in web apps (which I liked a lot), but that didn’t last long. What is super clear is that Apple gives not a single fuck about privacy, security, US laws, or anything except PR. They do exactly what generates the most money for them, and have no principles. Every single big stunt they have done costed them nothing and further consolidated their monopolies. It is always others who shoulder the costs, never Apple.

hrvTGKFyDyko3aK 6y ago

You can use AltStore to easily sideload apps to your iPhone without a developer account[0]. You only need to be on the same WiFi network as your computer once every 7 days to "refresh" the sideloaded app. [0] https://altstore.io/ https://altstore.io/

Terretta 6y ago

To your point, Apple Developer does not require the $100/year Apple Developer Program fee to load software on your iPhone, but does by default require a weekly cert refresh. However, the $100 is less a permission slip, and more buys you access to Apple services infrastructure that is largely worth the money so you don’t have to do it yourself and so your users can trust a single brand experience. (For example, notifications before Apple’s notification service were insane, the app “Growl” made a lot of money just trying to tame the dozens of different ways confounded users’ expectations with notifications. Similarly, updating apps was crazy-making for users, then there was Sparkle, now you get the app hosting and distribution included in the $8/month.) Just these few services are well worth $8 a month if you compare what you get to any other SaaS we’re buying all the time from HackerNews startups: - App discovery, hosting, distribution, updates - CloudKit, iCloud Documents, iCloud K/V Store - Push Notifications - Sign-in with Apple - etc. (NFC is also in the list) See this link for detailed differences between free Apple Developer and paid Apple Developer Program (also compares Enterprise distribution): https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 Since you specifically mention push notifications which of course require an infrastructure to run reliably for you 24/7, there’s a good value for the $8/month. The systems behind making these “just work” for users are complex and expensive.