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LaTeX is horrible and dated, but if you need to produce a thesis, or a thesis-like document it can't be beaten. When I used LaTex for my (sociology of computin

LaTeX is horrible and dated, but if you need to produce a thesis, or a thesis-like document it can't be beaten. When I used LaTex for my (sociology of computing) PhD it made it look I'd put far more effort into the document formatting than I actually had.

globular-toast 6y ago
The best looking documents from MS Word are the ones where the author hasn't put any effort into formatting except using the built in styles for headings and paragraphs etc. The only difference is LaTeX makes it obvious that this is the way whereas Word makes it easy to do the wrong thing and use ad hoc formatting.
- iorrus 6y ago
  Agree, pandoc makes the best word files IMO. It doesn’t allow you to make too many style formatting changes so write in markdown and use pandoc to create the word file using simple headers, standard formatting. Seems hard to replicate this approach in word in my experience without good discipline
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    Indeed, I've used pandoc to deliver above average looking documents easily on the occasions it's been required. On the rare occasions I've had to use Word directly I didn't struggle to stick to the theme, though. What did you find difficult?
    - iorrus 6y ago
      I’ve just never really used word by sticking to a theme, and tend to end up using custom formatting quite a bit e.g. I use heading 2 where I shouldn’t and should be using heading 1, use paragraphs in the wrong place etc. Use some custom formatting in a paragraph when I should be using a preset default etc
sgt 6y ago
I know it's a lot of setup, but how exactly is it horrible? I can imagine writing something in MS Word or Google Docs being horrible as the document grows. At least with LaTeX you can use a text editor, even vim if you want.
- baby 6y ago
  It’s just extremely complicated and the ecosystem has badly aged (yeah you need makefile and docker if you want to do it right, and nobody uses docker)
  - nanna 6y ago
    > It’s just extremely complicated Depends on what you're trying to do. To publish an article or book - no it's not very complicated. There's a vast package ecosystem and knowing where to turn can be daunting, but there is great community documentation out there such as by Overleaf[1] and the community on stack exchange is lively and lovely. Building your own functionality can be complicated, however partly this comes down to LaTeX being a very different programming paradigm to the conventional C-like languages. > the ecosystem has badly aged Care to substantiate? > you need makefile and docker if you want to do it right, and nobody uses docker Simply untrue. If you have a setup that warrants more than a conventional setup there are native-LaTeX build tools like arara which are simple to use.[2] [1] https://www.overleaf.com/learn/latex/Main_Page https://www.overleaf.com/learn/latex/Main_Page [2] https://gitlab.com/jm4rc05/arara https://gitlab.com/jm4rc05/arara
    - baby 6y ago
      I forgot Overleaf, they are single handedly making latex user friendly
      - nanna 6y ago
        I'd say 'single handedly' is a bit of an overstatement, but Overleaf are definitely doing a great job.
  - 6y ago
Isthatablackgsd 6y ago
Yes, initially it is far more effort into the document you want to create. But once you start to be familiar with the marcos and packages, then it become easier to do the document formatting. Honestly, I am still learning how to use LaTeX and I found it to be superior to Word because LaTeX allows me to edit it at the source (allowing finer control over the document) than relying on Word's WYSIWYG or any word processor to provide a virtual page until it is printed. The issue with WYSIWYG processor, there are chances that formatting will move around or clipped out the pages. That become more work to figure out how to get to fit in a single page, despite that WYSIWYG shows it is in the single page (the printed document show two pages). It is more hell to work with the table in Word than in LaTeX as Word have a weird table padding (really really hard to control this than in LaTeX) that lead the document to look a bit off. I started learning few weeks ago and now working on two additional documents because I start to understand of how to use it and it become quicker from there. But again every person have a different approach with learning LaTeX.

globular-toast 6y ago

The best looking documents from MS Word are the ones where the author hasn't put any effort into formatting except using the built in styles for headings and paragraphs etc. The only difference is LaTeX makes it obvious that this is the way whereas Word makes it easy to do the wrong thing and use ad hoc formatting.

iorrus 6y ago
Agree, pandoc makes the best word files IMO. It doesn’t allow you to make too many style formatting changes so write in markdown and use pandoc to create the word file using simple headers, standard formatting. Seems hard to replicate this approach in word in my experience without good discipline
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Indeed, I've used pandoc to deliver above average looking documents easily on the occasions it's been required. On the rare occasions I've had to use Word directly I didn't struggle to stick to the theme, though. What did you find difficult?
  - iorrus 6y ago
    I’ve just never really used word by sticking to a theme, and tend to end up using custom formatting quite a bit e.g. I use heading 2 where I shouldn’t and should be using heading 1, use paragraphs in the wrong place etc. Use some custom formatting in a paragraph when I should be using a preset default etc

sgt 6y ago

I know it's a lot of setup, but how exactly is it horrible? I can imagine writing something in MS Word or Google Docs being horrible as the document grows. At least with LaTeX you can use a text editor, even vim if you want.

baby 6y ago
It’s just extremely complicated and the ecosystem has badly aged (yeah you need makefile and docker if you want to do it right, and nobody uses docker)
- nanna 6y ago
  > It’s just extremely complicated Depends on what you're trying to do. To publish an article or book - no it's not very complicated. There's a vast package ecosystem and knowing where to turn can be daunting, but there is great community documentation out there such as by Overleaf[1] and the community on stack exchange is lively and lovely. Building your own functionality can be complicated, however partly this comes down to LaTeX being a very different programming paradigm to the conventional C-like languages. > the ecosystem has badly aged Care to substantiate? > you need makefile and docker if you want to do it right, and nobody uses docker Simply untrue. If you have a setup that warrants more than a conventional setup there are native-LaTeX build tools like arara which are simple to use.[2] [1] https://www.overleaf.com/learn/latex/Main_Page https://www.overleaf.com/learn/latex/Main_Page [2] https://gitlab.com/jm4rc05/arara https://gitlab.com/jm4rc05/arara
  - baby 6y ago
    I forgot Overleaf, they are single handedly making latex user friendly
    - nanna 6y ago
      I'd say 'single handedly' is a bit of an overstatement, but Overleaf are definitely doing a great job.
- 6y ago

Isthatablackgsd 6y ago

Yes, initially it is far more effort into the document you want to create. But once you start to be familiar with the marcos and packages, then it become easier to do the document formatting. Honestly, I am still learning how to use LaTeX and I found it to be superior to Word because LaTeX allows me to edit it at the source (allowing finer control over the document) than relying on Word's WYSIWYG or any word processor to provide a virtual page until it is printed. The issue with WYSIWYG processor, there are chances that formatting will move around or clipped out the pages. That become more work to figure out how to get to fit in a single page, despite that WYSIWYG shows it is in the single page (the printed document show two pages). It is more hell to work with the table in Word than in LaTeX as Word have a weird table padding (really really hard to control this than in LaTeX) that lead the document to look a bit off. I started learning few weeks ago and now working on two additional documents because I start to understand of how to use it and it become quicker from there. But again every person have a different approach with learning LaTeX.