9 ms·

Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

64 points by mesh 6y ago

poweronselftest 6y ago
Memorization is largely vilified in American schooling, and for good reason. But I think if not abused, it is an excellent form of (self-) learning not at all devoid of near meditative qualities. There something special about committing things to memory, especially verses.
- bjt2n3904 6y ago
  You have a very interesting insight here -- now that I think about it, I see it. But I'm not sure I agree that it is for a good reason. Intuitive understanding of math is better than rote memorization. But that does not mean that rote memorization is bad, only lesser. I'm also not convinced that many people can grasp something intuitively, bypassing rote memorization.
  - ljlolel 6y ago
    It’s also been noted that basically all great mathematicians are excellent at basic maths (memorized timetables) and can remember many numbers and can calculate in head quickly —— even though technically shouldn’t be necessary for proofs
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zerof1l 6y ago
  I had experience with both American schooling and European one where memorization was a big part of the learning. I was struggling to memorize things. The American way worked perfectly for me. I think that schools should not encourage memorization. A learning process where you remember all the facts and recite them exactly, you get a good grade is bad. That doesn't mean you actually understand and can apply your knowledge. There was this article on HN a couple of days ago about the medical paper where the author had reinvented the integral. That's the result of too much memorization.
throwawaysea 6y ago
The Gulag Archipelago is one of those pieces I wish everyone would read. These days the lessons of socialism and communism are lost on a younger generation that seems blind to what Marxism led to, and how much suffering and death it caused. The ideologies behind these government systems require authoritarianism, from the state and the mob. It requires a single ideology to win with everything else stamped out, and this is explicitly mentioned in foundational Marxist works. Ultimately that adherence to a singular ideology, with aggressive suppression of all others, leads to every subsequent horror. https://academyofideas.com/2017/04/gulag-archipelago-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/ https://academyofideas.com/2017/04/gulag-archipelago-aleksan... Here's a link to the abridged version: https://www.amazon.com/Archipelago-Peterson-introduction-Aleksandr-Solzhenitsyn/dp/1784871516 https://www.amazon.com/Archipelago-Peterson-introduction-Ale... But if you want the full experience, look up the three-volume originals.
- poweronselftest 6y ago
  I read a big chunk of the Gulag Archipelago in Russian last year and it was, to my surprise, one of the most beautiful things I'd ever read. It reads like poetry, especially the beginning. Now I am thinking: maybe he recited and memorized all those passages to himself and used the verse-like structure to aid memorization. In the Gulag Archipelago Solzhenitsyn cites something that has really stuck with me: > Martin Latsis, writing for the newspaper Red Terror, November 1, 1918: “We are not fighting against single individuals. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class. It is not necessary during the interrogation to look for evidence proving that the accused opposed the Soviets by word or action. The first question you should ask him is what class does he belong to, what is his origin, his education and his profession. These are the questions that will determine the fate of the accused. Such is the sense and essence of red terror.” A haunting quote, you would think. The thing is, I'm not sure that our younger generation would learn much from reading Solzhenitsyn, or even the above quote. I think even Solzhenitsyn can't teach you that you cannot take things like "equality" at face value. That maybe there are deeper realities lurking beneath the surface? I'll leave it to Dylan: > A self-ordained professor's tongue / Too serious to fool/ Spouted out that liberty / Is just equality in school / "Equality," I spoke their word / As if a wedding vow / Ah, but I was so much older then / I'm younger than that now.
lsb 6y ago
In ancient Greece papyrus was roughly worth its weight in silver. For a long time writing was so onerous that people just didn't do it. The shared civilization behind ancient Greece and ancient Northern India and ancient Britain had a system of oral-formulaic poetry, wherein descriptions are full of stock phrases like "wine-dark sea" or "rosy-fingered Dawn", like in today's "My name is X and I'm here to say" in more recent oral poetic forms.
- BuyMyBitcoins 6y ago
  I’ve heard speculation that such poetic formulas act as a sort of data integrity system. It’s a form of error correction because what comes next in the poem has to fit certain rules. It’s not just useful for memorization, it actively helps structure the information so it gets passed with fewer errors.
  - lsb 6y ago
    The data integrity operates on the level of story line and major themes. Formulae are at the word and phrase level. If the written is subordinate to the orally extemporaneous, like jazz, maybe you memorize a few star solos, but memorization isn't how you play a solo as a jazz musician. It's like asking "Did Hansel and Gretel see Rapunzel along the way?", and the answer depends on whether a book or a culture creates the stories their use. If you have no writing, all of your community's texts are fan fiction with limit on headcanon. People brought tape recorders to Bosnia in the 1930s, to try to see how oral folk music worked, and to see how much it changed day to day and year to year, and they found that they couldn't glue the same story together from day to day.
self 6y ago
The second part: https://nevalalee.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/the-alphabet-method/ https://nevalalee.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/the-alphabet-meth...

64 points by mesh 6y ago

Memorization is largely vilified in American schooling, and for good reason. But I think if not abused, it is an excellent form of (self-) learning not at all devoid of near meditative qualities. There something special about committing things to memory, especially verses.

bjt2n3904 6y ago
You have a very interesting insight here -- now that I think about it, I see it. But I'm not sure I agree that it is for a good reason. Intuitive understanding of math is better than rote memorization. But that does not mean that rote memorization is bad, only lesser. I'm also not convinced that many people can grasp something intuitively, bypassing rote memorization.
- ljlolel 6y ago
  It’s also been noted that basically all great mathematicians are excellent at basic maths (memorized timetables) and can remember many numbers and can calculate in head quickly —— even though technically shouldn’t be necessary for proofs
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zerof1l 6y ago
I had experience with both American schooling and European one where memorization was a big part of the learning. I was struggling to memorize things. The American way worked perfectly for me. I think that schools should not encourage memorization. A learning process where you remember all the facts and recite them exactly, you get a good grade is bad. That doesn't mean you actually understand and can apply your knowledge. There was this article on HN a couple of days ago about the medical paper where the author had reinvented the integral. That's the result of too much memorization.

throwawaysea 6y ago

The Gulag Archipelago is one of those pieces I wish everyone would read. These days the lessons of socialism and communism are lost on a younger generation that seems blind to what Marxism led to, and how much suffering and death it caused. The ideologies behind these government systems require authoritarianism, from the state and the mob. It requires a single ideology to win with everything else stamped out, and this is explicitly mentioned in foundational Marxist works. Ultimately that adherence to a singular ideology, with aggressive suppression of all others, leads to every subsequent horror. https://academyofideas.com/2017/04/gulag-archipelago-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/ https://academyofideas.com/2017/04/gulag-archipelago-aleksan... Here's a link to the abridged version: https://www.amazon.com/Archipelago-Peterson-introduction-Aleksandr-Solzhenitsyn/dp/1784871516 https://www.amazon.com/Archipelago-Peterson-introduction-Ale... But if you want the full experience, look up the three-volume originals.

poweronselftest 6y ago
I read a big chunk of the Gulag Archipelago in Russian last year and it was, to my surprise, one of the most beautiful things I'd ever read. It reads like poetry, especially the beginning. Now I am thinking: maybe he recited and memorized all those passages to himself and used the verse-like structure to aid memorization. In the Gulag Archipelago Solzhenitsyn cites something that has really stuck with me: > Martin Latsis, writing for the newspaper Red Terror, November 1, 1918: “We are not fighting against single individuals. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class. It is not necessary during the interrogation to look for evidence proving that the accused opposed the Soviets by word or action. The first question you should ask him is what class does he belong to, what is his origin, his education and his profession. These are the questions that will determine the fate of the accused. Such is the sense and essence of red terror.” A haunting quote, you would think. The thing is, I'm not sure that our younger generation would learn much from reading Solzhenitsyn, or even the above quote. I think even Solzhenitsyn can't teach you that you cannot take things like "equality" at face value. That maybe there are deeper realities lurking beneath the surface? I'll leave it to Dylan: > A self-ordained professor's tongue / Too serious to fool/ Spouted out that liberty / Is just equality in school / "Equality," I spoke their word / As if a wedding vow / Ah, but I was so much older then / I'm younger than that now.

lsb 6y ago

In ancient Greece papyrus was roughly worth its weight in silver. For a long time writing was so onerous that people just didn't do it. The shared civilization behind ancient Greece and ancient Northern India and ancient Britain had a system of oral-formulaic poetry, wherein descriptions are full of stock phrases like "wine-dark sea" or "rosy-fingered Dawn", like in today's "My name is X and I'm here to say" in more recent oral poetic forms.

BuyMyBitcoins 6y ago
I’ve heard speculation that such poetic formulas act as a sort of data integrity system. It’s a form of error correction because what comes next in the poem has to fit certain rules. It’s not just useful for memorization, it actively helps structure the information so it gets passed with fewer errors.
- lsb 6y ago
  The data integrity operates on the level of story line and major themes. Formulae are at the word and phrase level. If the written is subordinate to the orally extemporaneous, like jazz, maybe you memorize a few star solos, but memorization isn't how you play a solo as a jazz musician. It's like asking "Did Hansel and Gretel see Rapunzel along the way?", and the answer depends on whether a book or a culture creates the stories their use. If you have no writing, all of your community's texts are fan fiction with limit on headcanon. People brought tape recorders to Bosnia in the 1930s, to try to see how oral folk music worked, and to see how much it changed day to day and year to year, and they found that they couldn't glue the same story together from day to day.

self 6y ago

The second part: https://nevalalee.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/the-alphabet-method/ https://nevalalee.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/the-alphabet-meth...