> Waymo's commercial service is L5, no? Waymo is L4. L5 means it can take you to your favorite campground (anywhere) and handle any scenario. Waymo says it’s n

> Waymo's commercial service is L5, no? Waymo is L4. L5 means it can take you to your favorite campground (anywhere) and handle any scenario. Waymo says it’s not a realistic goal. But yes, the normal levels are not very well defined. > If no-LIDAR FSD is not as feasible as Tesla hopes, they can just... use LIDAR. Tesla has promised the current fleet has all the necessary hardware to make it work (they couldn’t possibly know this at the time). So they can’t walk back on that without incurring huge costs for retrofitting existing cars and development cost for overhauling their tech stack. Meanwhile, they would’ve sunk money and time pursuing a much harder problem. If they had used additional sensors from the beginning, they could’ve provided much more value to their paying customers by now. Edit: Just saw your edit. > From what I've seen of Tesla's FSD beta, it could very probably be T4 if Tesla geofenced certain areas and worked out any particular kinks manually. Yes, that’s what they should have done. Make realistic promises. I mean, you’re talking about making it work on _any_ road, _any_ intersection and _any_ scenario. Without additional sensors and mapping, it’s seems pretty unlikely (if not impossible) to me. Certainly given the timeframe Elon Musk promises.