3 ms·

The forgotten Americans who ended in the gulag

15 points by peakok 18y ago

greyman 18y ago
Sad stories. It's interesting, that similarly how Western media painted a distorted picture of Soviet communist regime, they now paint a distorted picture of China communist regime. The same deception tactics still works, the existence of forced labors camps (gulags) is very rarely mentioned, horrible human rights abuses go unreported in mainstream media, etc. When will mankind learn their lessons?
- tptacek 18y ago
  Is your argument that conditions in China are comparable to those in Stalinist Russia, and, if so, can you support that argument with evidence?
  - wtrk 18y ago
    The Soviet regime ran a large system of forced labor camps. China currently runs a large system of forced labor camps. Horrible human rights violations occurred under the Soviet system and are currently occurring in China. Here's a recent, quite representative, example of the sort of thing that can happen to someone in China: "Chinese teacher sent to labour camp for earthquake photos" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/30/chinaearthquake.china?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/30/chinaearthquake.... Excerpt: A Chinese teacher has been sent to a labour camp over his internet photographs of schools that collapsed in the Sichuan earthquake, a rights group said today. Liu Shaokun was ordered to serve a year of "re-education through labour", according to Human Rights in China. The system does not require a formal charge or criminal trial and there is no appeal.
    - cglee 18y ago
      This quote doesn't capture the main reason for his jailing. When looking at superficial reasons, it seems unrelated (taking a photo, reading a book, eating ice cream, joining a religion, etc), but the root reason is "causing social unrest". He was taking pictures to expose possible government corruption in the building of the school. This would have caused people to protest and blame the local government for the students' deaths. Likewise with Falun Gong. Suppressing religion isn't the end goal. It's the fear of someone having influence over a large number of people, and thereby possibly causing social unrest. Don't read this as a defense of the Chinese government. I'm just trying to clarify the quote to prevent the "how can they jail someone for THAT?" response.
  - greyman 18y ago
    Yes, the conditions are comparable for those citizens, who were labeled as enemies of the regime. I don't know what you will accept as an evidence, but here are a few links: http://laogai.org http://laogai.org - research of the laogai, so called "Chinese gulags". China has more than 1,000 of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harve... - Organ harvesting from living people There are also other reports by United Nations or Amnesty international about that.
- wtrk 18y ago
  The Chinese equivalent to the Soviet-era gulag is the laogai ("reform through labor") camp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai
ola 18y ago
I guess "One Day in the Life of John Smith" didn't sound as interesting.

15 points by peakok 18y ago

Sad stories. It's interesting, that similarly how Western media painted a distorted picture of Soviet communist regime, they now paint a distorted picture of China communist regime. The same deception tactics still works, the existence of forced labors camps (gulags) is very rarely mentioned, horrible human rights abuses go unreported in mainstream media, etc. When will mankind learn their lessons?

tptacek 18y ago
Is your argument that conditions in China are comparable to those in Stalinist Russia, and, if so, can you support that argument with evidence?
- wtrk 18y ago
  The Soviet regime ran a large system of forced labor camps. China currently runs a large system of forced labor camps. Horrible human rights violations occurred under the Soviet system and are currently occurring in China. Here's a recent, quite representative, example of the sort of thing that can happen to someone in China: "Chinese teacher sent to labour camp for earthquake photos" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/30/chinaearthquake.china?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/30/chinaearthquake.... Excerpt: A Chinese teacher has been sent to a labour camp over his internet photographs of schools that collapsed in the Sichuan earthquake, a rights group said today. Liu Shaokun was ordered to serve a year of "re-education through labour", according to Human Rights in China. The system does not require a formal charge or criminal trial and there is no appeal.
  - cglee 18y ago
    This quote doesn't capture the main reason for his jailing. When looking at superficial reasons, it seems unrelated (taking a photo, reading a book, eating ice cream, joining a religion, etc), but the root reason is "causing social unrest". He was taking pictures to expose possible government corruption in the building of the school. This would have caused people to protest and blame the local government for the students' deaths. Likewise with Falun Gong. Suppressing religion isn't the end goal. It's the fear of someone having influence over a large number of people, and thereby possibly causing social unrest. Don't read this as a defense of the Chinese government. I'm just trying to clarify the quote to prevent the "how can they jail someone for THAT?" response.
- greyman 18y ago
  Yes, the conditions are comparable for those citizens, who were labeled as enemies of the regime. I don't know what you will accept as an evidence, but here are a few links: http://laogai.org http://laogai.org - research of the laogai, so called "Chinese gulags". China has more than 1,000 of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harve... - Organ harvesting from living people There are also other reports by United Nations or Amnesty international about that.
wtrk 18y ago
The Chinese equivalent to the Soviet-era gulag is the laogai ("reform through labor") camp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai

ola 18y ago

I guess "One Day in the Life of John Smith" didn't sound as interesting.