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I have a 2021 model 3 and autopilot is a really bad driver. Teenager learning to drive with poor habits bad. I went for a 500km+ drive on Sunday to visit new

I have a 2021 model 3 and autopilot is a really bad driver. Teenager learning to drive with poor habits bad. I went for a 500km+ drive on Sunday to visit new supercharger locations (it's been a long pandemic and I'm pretty bored). It was mostly rural highways without lane separation or limited access. These are some of the most dangerous roads to drive on since there is direct oncoming and cross traffic. Speed limits are 80 km/hr, but the prevailing traffic flows at just under 100 km/hr, so closing speeds are around 200 km/hr. I hardly ever turn on autopilot since it's just bad at driving, but there were long stretches of completely straight roads with multiple minutes passing between oncoming vehicles. Even in that specific circumstances Autopilot made some truly weak decisions about its basic driving style. It attached to the centreline between lanes which limited the gap with oncoming traffic. When I drive myself in the same circumstances I attach to the outside of the lane to maximize the space I can give oncoming cars. With the amount of room autopilot was giving even a small twitch or moment of distraction would be enough for disaster. If the event was timed poorly enough even a computer system would have no chance to react in time to physically manoeuvre the car out of the way. Autopilot makes no accommodation for blind spots. When traffic is flowing at full speed on limited access or other multiple lane highways I adjust my relative position with other vehicles to ensure I'm never spending long periods of time in another driver's blind spot. If we're travelling the same speed I create a gap to ensure a quick lane change won't result in contact. Autopilot will continue along completely oblivious and no taking good defensive driving precautions. There is a youtube channel featuring collision footage from Tesla onboard cameras. Nearly every collision when autopilot is engaged is a situation that never would have occurred in the hands of a skilled driver who anticipates issues and prevents dangerous situations from every occurring. Without knowing the specific collision that's about to happen in the video in most cases I can see a dangerous situation starting to develop I would have reacted to seconds before the collision actually occurs.

w0m 6y ago
> Without knowing the specific collision that's about to happen in the video in most cases I can see a dangerous situation starting to develop I would have reacted to seconds before the collision actually occurs. But you tend to know a collision is coming. Most accidents are due to people being comfortable and not being as alert as they should be; your example is the opposite. AP is currently ~good on highway (probably safer than I am in good weather), but Meh elsewise. Hopefully it continues to improve; but it will be awhile still i think; and iffy to ever get there on our current Teslas.
- theluketaylor 6y ago
  fair enough on the anticipation, but when I have let autopilot take over it has often been only seconds before I'm already uncomfortable with the decisions it's making and spotting the really rookie driving mistakes it makes. autopilot creates danger where none needed to exist by not using the full width of the lane and failing to create space through relative small speed adjustments. The cues it gives off while driving are some of the exact things I watch for when trying to identify beginning drivers so I can give them even more space. I certainly would not describe autopilot as 'good' on highways. I'd barely call it adequate.
rainyMammoth 6y ago
That is my conclusion as well. I have tried Autopilot and it's basically as good and useful as any modern lane steering and cruise control system out there.
xiphias2 6y ago
Do you have the FSD beta? You just wrote a long text about why it's important to use self-supervised learning to create a birds eyed view of the world, because object detection and planning from camera only view doesn't work well enough. Yes, we knew it.
- theluketaylor 6y ago
  No, I don’t have FSD or the beta. I really do love my model 3, but charging for FSD that doesn’t yet exist is the closest thing to fraud I’ve ever seen so widely available. The issues I have with AP have little to do with their object learning or need to gather more information (though I agree camera-only isn’t enough). The car knows where the lane boundaries are but doesn’t take advantage of the width. It knows accurately enough where other vehicles are that it could avoid staying in another driver’s blind spot indefinitely. Tesla is teaching their cars how to drive with terrible habits and not building defensive driving into their rule set.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    The problem is not camera only autopilot. Your current software uses a projected view that can be seen from the camera for path planning. Dave made great interview about it on youtube. If you are in the right region, you can try the FSD beta soon enough, which has showm amazing driving skills already from the Youtube videos I have seen. I live in the EU though, so I guess I have to wait at least a year or 2 to try the beta :(
    - theluketaylor 6y ago
      I did not pay for FSD, so I won't be getting any of that. My issues with autopilot are about the fact it fundamentally doesn't practice defensive driving. This has nothing to do with how tesla choses to input information as they already have more than enough detail to drive more defensively. They are fundamentally creating a very bad driver who cannot safely interact with other traffic and actively creates more risk on the road.
fiftyfifty 6y ago
We've had a model 3 for 2 years, autopilot has gotten worse over time. It was actually decent when we first had our car, but with every update it's slowly gotten worse and worse. I think it's intentional to either get people to pay for the full self driving package or to keep people from trusting autopilot too much.
- mgalgs 6y ago
  Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this! I used to use it in my M3 all the time a few years ago. Doesn't make sense because the sign detection etc has improved...

w0m 6y ago

> Without knowing the specific collision that's about to happen in the video in most cases I can see a dangerous situation starting to develop I would have reacted to seconds before the collision actually occurs. But you tend to know a collision is coming. Most accidents are due to people being comfortable and not being as alert as they should be; your example is the opposite. AP is currently ~good on highway (probably safer than I am in good weather), but Meh elsewise. Hopefully it continues to improve; but it will be awhile still i think; and iffy to ever get there on our current Teslas.

theluketaylor 6y ago
fair enough on the anticipation, but when I have let autopilot take over it has often been only seconds before I'm already uncomfortable with the decisions it's making and spotting the really rookie driving mistakes it makes. autopilot creates danger where none needed to exist by not using the full width of the lane and failing to create space through relative small speed adjustments. The cues it gives off while driving are some of the exact things I watch for when trying to identify beginning drivers so I can give them even more space. I certainly would not describe autopilot as 'good' on highways. I'd barely call it adequate.

rainyMammoth 6y ago

That is my conclusion as well. I have tried Autopilot and it's basically as good and useful as any modern lane steering and cruise control system out there.

xiphias2 6y ago

Do you have the FSD beta? You just wrote a long text about why it's important to use self-supervised learning to create a birds eyed view of the world, because object detection and planning from camera only view doesn't work well enough. Yes, we knew it.

theluketaylor 6y ago
No, I don’t have FSD or the beta. I really do love my model 3, but charging for FSD that doesn’t yet exist is the closest thing to fraud I’ve ever seen so widely available. The issues I have with AP have little to do with their object learning or need to gather more information (though I agree camera-only isn’t enough). The car knows where the lane boundaries are but doesn’t take advantage of the width. It knows accurately enough where other vehicles are that it could avoid staying in another driver’s blind spot indefinitely. Tesla is teaching their cars how to drive with terrible habits and not building defensive driving into their rule set.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  The problem is not camera only autopilot. Your current software uses a projected view that can be seen from the camera for path planning. Dave made great interview about it on youtube. If you are in the right region, you can try the FSD beta soon enough, which has showm amazing driving skills already from the Youtube videos I have seen. I live in the EU though, so I guess I have to wait at least a year or 2 to try the beta :(
  - theluketaylor 6y ago
    I did not pay for FSD, so I won't be getting any of that. My issues with autopilot are about the fact it fundamentally doesn't practice defensive driving. This has nothing to do with how tesla choses to input information as they already have more than enough detail to drive more defensively. They are fundamentally creating a very bad driver who cannot safely interact with other traffic and actively creates more risk on the road.

fiftyfifty 6y ago

We've had a model 3 for 2 years, autopilot has gotten worse over time. It was actually decent when we first had our car, but with every update it's slowly gotten worse and worse. I think it's intentional to either get people to pay for the full self driving package or to keep people from trusting autopilot too much.

mgalgs 6y ago
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this! I used to use it in my M3 all the time a few years ago. Doesn't make sense because the sign detection etc has improved...