5 ms·

With all due respect, I think part of her issue is she looks at everything from a "sexism" lens. Her first discriminatory comment seems like a sensible thing to

With all due respect, I think part of her issue is she looks at everything from a "sexism" lens. Her first discriminatory comment seems like a sensible thing to tell any new grad. She complains that the company didn't tell her she was a diversity hire? Doing this seems like a recipe for any diversity hire to always have imposter syndrome. There's definitely sexism in the tech industry but I'd argue the best way forward is with tact. Coming out guns blaring with accusations and always assuming bad intentions will just alienate people from the cause. She'd be better served trying to understand where people are coming from and working through specific, addressable issues.

grayhatter 6y ago
she looks at everything from a sexism lense?... in the essay's topic of sexism she experienced? Yeah, agreed, she's too narrowly focused on her topic... She should ramble more and include more unrelated observations.
- azinman2 6y ago
  It seems like she’s experienced a lot of inappropriate and difficult things explicitly about gender. My only question was the cultural fit — we don’t know for sure that gender had anything to do with it. Often times when people are fired not only can you never tell them why, they are incapable of seeing, assessing, and recognizing their own flaws (particular when it comes to personal interaction versus quantitative measurements).
  - handoflixue 6y ago
    "Culture fit" without any other explanation is fairly solid evidence. First off, programming is one of the most "culture agnostic" jobs I've worked - if you're a high performer, you can absolutely get away with being an abrasive asshole. At least, if you're male. That's slowly changing, but I still find the social skills of the average programmer to be significantly below what I'd expect from, say, a minimum wage cashier or call center employee. (And that's fine, but it makes "culture fit" look like a much more suspicious excuse) The other aspect here is that they just fired her, without any effort to actually work on that "culture fit". I've worked with managers who had wildly different styles, and some of them did NOT like mine. But instead of getting fired, I had conversations with them. It's certainly possible that she's lying, or in denial, or just plain wrong. But I'd say the weight of the evidence favors her.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - azinman2 6y ago
      We don’t know that issues were or weren’t discussed with her. She just might not have put 2+2 together. I also don’t agree that you can sometimes get away with being an asshole if you’re a high performer… there certainly are environments where that’s the case but equally there plenty of others where it doesn’t cut it. I remember telling another team who I (previously) worked for, to which he replied “that guy? He’s impossible to work with.” Not too much later he was let go despite all his accolades and status. I’ve seen enough assholes and inadvertent jerks have zero ability to reflect on their lack of EQ to ever be able to understand why things didn’t work out for them. They always blame it on others. I don’t know if that’s the case here or not, but I’d never take a random blog post as complete truth of a situation that involves multiple people and subjective judgement rendered. It reminds me of a recent posting to HN about an Apple employee who seemed to go thru hell. Her rant was so extreme and unprofessional in its rant-y-ness it made me heavily question her own judgment and behavior. She made have been in a toxic environment, to which she may or may not have equally contributed without realizing it.
clarkdale 6y ago
> Coming out guns blaring with accusations She is not doing that > working through specific, addressable issues She is doing exactly this
bpicolo 6y ago
> didn't tell her she was a diversity hire It's illegal to do and definitely illegal to put on paper (in the US) - it's discrimination. That said, depends on what "HR had intentions to prioritize candidates" means in context.
mc32 6y ago
I have to agree. Some of it is sexist (her feminist coworker) but the others not so much. I could accuse them of lacking tact, perhaps. One has to keep in mind that not only do Other people offend us inadvertently but also WE inadvertently offend others too. We can’t be so sensitive that we become prickly and then have people avoid you because you’re so prickly. We have to be okay with not everything coming from your point of view. You won’t be able to have the Other persons PoV either even if you’re conscious of it. You have no idea what I’m thinking in a moment. It’s a fool’s errand. Be genuine, be respectful, but don’t fault people for coming short when trying. When talking to an audience you cannot simultaneously please everyone. It’s just not possible. At best you can be compliant with whatever the accepted practice is.

grayhatter 6y ago

she looks at everything from a sexism lense?... in the essay's topic of sexism she experienced? Yeah, agreed, she's too narrowly focused on her topic... She should ramble more and include more unrelated observations.

azinman2 6y ago
It seems like she’s experienced a lot of inappropriate and difficult things explicitly about gender. My only question was the cultural fit — we don’t know for sure that gender had anything to do with it. Often times when people are fired not only can you never tell them why, they are incapable of seeing, assessing, and recognizing their own flaws (particular when it comes to personal interaction versus quantitative measurements).
- handoflixue 6y ago
  "Culture fit" without any other explanation is fairly solid evidence. First off, programming is one of the most "culture agnostic" jobs I've worked - if you're a high performer, you can absolutely get away with being an abrasive asshole. At least, if you're male. That's slowly changing, but I still find the social skills of the average programmer to be significantly below what I'd expect from, say, a minimum wage cashier or call center employee. (And that's fine, but it makes "culture fit" look like a much more suspicious excuse) The other aspect here is that they just fired her, without any effort to actually work on that "culture fit". I've worked with managers who had wildly different styles, and some of them did NOT like mine. But instead of getting fired, I had conversations with them. It's certainly possible that she's lying, or in denial, or just plain wrong. But I'd say the weight of the evidence favors her.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - azinman2 6y ago
    We don’t know that issues were or weren’t discussed with her. She just might not have put 2+2 together. I also don’t agree that you can sometimes get away with being an asshole if you’re a high performer… there certainly are environments where that’s the case but equally there plenty of others where it doesn’t cut it. I remember telling another team who I (previously) worked for, to which he replied “that guy? He’s impossible to work with.” Not too much later he was let go despite all his accolades and status. I’ve seen enough assholes and inadvertent jerks have zero ability to reflect on their lack of EQ to ever be able to understand why things didn’t work out for them. They always blame it on others. I don’t know if that’s the case here or not, but I’d never take a random blog post as complete truth of a situation that involves multiple people and subjective judgement rendered. It reminds me of a recent posting to HN about an Apple employee who seemed to go thru hell. Her rant was so extreme and unprofessional in its rant-y-ness it made me heavily question her own judgment and behavior. She made have been in a toxic environment, to which she may or may not have equally contributed without realizing it.

clarkdale 6y ago

> Coming out guns blaring with accusations She is not doing that > working through specific, addressable issues She is doing exactly this

bpicolo 6y ago

> didn't tell her she was a diversity hire It's illegal to do and definitely illegal to put on paper (in the US) - it's discrimination. That said, depends on what "HR had intentions to prioritize candidates" means in context.

mc32 6y ago

I have to agree. Some of it is sexist (her feminist coworker) but the others not so much. I could accuse them of lacking tact, perhaps. One has to keep in mind that not only do Other people offend us inadvertently but also WE inadvertently offend others too. We can’t be so sensitive that we become prickly and then have people avoid you because you’re so prickly. We have to be okay with not everything coming from your point of view. You won’t be able to have the Other persons PoV either even if you’re conscious of it. You have no idea what I’m thinking in a moment. It’s a fool’s errand. Be genuine, be respectful, but don’t fault people for coming short when trying. When talking to an audience you cannot simultaneously please everyone. It’s just not possible. At best you can be compliant with whatever the accepted practice is.