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I work at a company that employs developers in the US and in Europe. The European developers are more upset that they’re paid less, than the US developers care

I work at a company that employs developers in the US and in Europe. The European developers are more upset that they’re paid less, than the US developers care about the European benefits.

blunte 6y ago
Having lived most of my life in the US, and only the last 8 years in NL, I wouldn't move back to the US to an onsite office unless the pay were at least 3-4x higher. If I could work remotely from the mountains in Colorado again, I would consider it for a 3x increase. Less than that, and it's just not worth it. The quality of life here is that much better imo.
- tharkun__ 6y ago
  Absolutely agreed. It's sometimes really hard to understand how 'Americans' can't fathom getting stuff done 'the European way'. Somehow it seems impossible to them that having 30 days of vacation from day one of your career is possible. They can't fathom that hours in seat don't equal output. They can't fathom that you can care about your work and still just go home at reasonable hours (and still take care of say a production issue when needed but then obviously go home early next Friday or take the day off entirely).
  - bradleyjg 6y ago
    The rest of it I can buy but not this part: > They can't fathom that hours in seat don't equal output. Or at least not the implication. Of course those things aren’t strictly equal but it seems like wishful thinking to believe that all those Americans working hard are not accomplishing any more than their European colleagues taking 30 day vacations and leaving at five o’clock. Diminishing returns, sure, but zero returns I don’t buy. On the contrary it’s pretty clear the returns are meaningful. Life is about trade-offs. It doesn’t do anyone any good to pretend there’s such a thing as a free lunch.
    - tharkun__ 6y ago
      Fair enough as like you say it's all a scale anyway. For the record I never left at exactly five or started at 9 for that matter back in Germany and I don't either where I am now (Canada). I never felt bad about leaving at 3 in Germany though. I did/do in Canada. _Every_time_.
    - blunte 6y ago
      "Hours in seat" provide diminishing returns, just like "lines of code produced" do. It has been a measured fact that productivity per hour curves in the negative direction after about 7 hours per day (in sum, not necessarily contiguous).

I work at a company that employs developers in the US and in Europe. The European developers are more upset that they’re paid less, than the US developers care about the European benefits.

blunte 6y ago

Having lived most of my life in the US, and only the last 8 years in NL, I wouldn't move back to the US to an onsite office unless the pay were at least 3-4x higher. If I could work remotely from the mountains in Colorado again, I would consider it for a 3x increase. Less than that, and it's just not worth it. The quality of life here is that much better imo.

tharkun__ 6y ago
Absolutely agreed. It's sometimes really hard to understand how 'Americans' can't fathom getting stuff done 'the European way'. Somehow it seems impossible to them that having 30 days of vacation from day one of your career is possible. They can't fathom that hours in seat don't equal output. They can't fathom that you can care about your work and still just go home at reasonable hours (and still take care of say a production issue when needed but then obviously go home early next Friday or take the day off entirely).
- bradleyjg 6y ago
  The rest of it I can buy but not this part: > They can't fathom that hours in seat don't equal output. Or at least not the implication. Of course those things aren’t strictly equal but it seems like wishful thinking to believe that all those Americans working hard are not accomplishing any more than their European colleagues taking 30 day vacations and leaving at five o’clock. Diminishing returns, sure, but zero returns I don’t buy. On the contrary it’s pretty clear the returns are meaningful. Life is about trade-offs. It doesn’t do anyone any good to pretend there’s such a thing as a free lunch.
  - tharkun__ 6y ago
    Fair enough as like you say it's all a scale anyway. For the record I never left at exactly five or started at 9 for that matter back in Germany and I don't either where I am now (Canada). I never felt bad about leaving at 3 in Germany though. I did/do in Canada. _Every_time_.
  - blunte 6y ago
    "Hours in seat" provide diminishing returns, just like "lines of code produced" do. It has been a measured fact that productivity per hour curves in the negative direction after about 7 hours per day (in sum, not necessarily contiguous).