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‘Undeniable success’: South Australia’s 129MWh Tesla battery https://www.energy-storage.news/news/undeniable-success-south-australias-129mwh-tesla-battery http

‘Undeniable success’: South Australia’s 129MWh Tesla battery https://www.energy-storage.news/news/undeniable-success-south-australias-129mwh-tesla-battery https://www.energy-storage.news/news/undeniable-success-sout... South Australia’s Tesla ‘Big Battery’ saved consumers $116 million in electricity costs last year https://www.startupdaily.net/2020/03/south-australias-tesla-big-battery-saved-consumers-116-million-in-electricity-costs-last-year/ https://www.startupdaily.net/2020/03/south-australias-tesla-...

0xy 6y ago
According to recent figures, South Australian energy prices are 51% higher than Victoria, or 134% higher than Texas. Throwing poor people under the bus (they're most impacted by high energy prices) so you can claim you're green (while opening brand new gas power plants) is pretty awful. South Australia is still building new gas plants. Natural gas, which is nearly as dirty as coal.
- shirro 6y ago
  South Australia pricing suffers from a failure of deregulation, not renewable power. The gas/wind/solar mix for generation is fine for a state with a very small population and abundant wind, sun and natural gas. SA has very poor deposits of brown coal which were not sustainable and the country lacks any nuclear power expertise. The state privatised their grid and it is now controlled by foreign owners. Many believe the pricing is the result of gold plating. Generation costs have fallen in recent years and wholesale prices are competitive with the other states.
- TrainedMonkey 6y ago
  I was extremely surprised in claim that Natural gas is nearly as dirty as coal as that contradicted my intuition. So I did some Googling and was not able to find supporting evidence. Below is a quote from: https://www.gasvessel.eu/news/natural-gas-vs-coal-impact-on-the-environment/ https://www.gasvessel.eu/news/natural-gas-vs-coal-impact-on-... > Natural gas is a fossil fuel, though the global warming emissions from its combustion are much lower than those from coal or oil. Natural gas emits 50 to 60 percent less carbon dioxide (CO2) when combusted in a new, efficient natural gas-power plant compared with emissions from a typical new coal plant. From the above natural gas power plants do produce a surprising amount of CO2, but is far far better than new coal plants. Legacy coal plants also are a significant air pollution source, so if we get out of coal power plants by building out natural gas seems like a win. Finally I checked renewables for South Australia and they seems to be doing really great at 53%, compare to U.S. at ~23%: https://indaily.com.au/news/science-and-tech/2021/01/27/sa-renewables-peak-in-2020/ https://indaily.com.au/news/science-and-tech/2021/01/27/sa-r... List of currently operating power plants and the ones under constructions corroborates renewable energy percentage and actually suggests that South Australia is doing great on renewables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Sout...
  - 0xy 6y ago
    >Natural gas emits 50 to 60 percent less carbon dioxide You're comparing the absolute best natural gas plant to the average coal plant? The source also isn't neutral. >Finally I checked renewables for South Australia and they seems to be doing really great At the expense of the poor and minorities, which I guess are acceptable collateral damage in this crusade. [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6920209/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6920209/
    - lurgburg 6y ago
      Are you just generally writing about green energy, or about the Telsa battery (the subject of this discussion)? As the ancestor comment noted, the battery saved money, and saving money doesn't increase costs.
    - TrainedMonkey 6y ago
      >You're comparing the absolute best natural gas plant to the average coal plant? The source also isn't neutral. Source claims comparison is for new plants in both directions. Concur it is likely not neutral, do you have a better one? > At the expense of the poor and minorities, which I guess are acceptable collateral damage in this crusade. [1] Disproportional impact of higher energy prices is absolutely a factor... What I do not get is how much better South Australia could have done?
  - wombatmobile 6y ago
    The trouble with natural gas is not so much at the site of combustion at the power generating plant - it is at the point of extraction, where methane leaks into the atmosphere unchecked. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/super-potent-methane-in-atmosphere-oil-gas-drilling-ice-cores https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/super-pot...
    - TrainedMonkey 6y ago
      Great point, I assumed that natgas was oil industry byproduct and basically free.

0xy 6y ago

According to recent figures, South Australian energy prices are 51% higher than Victoria, or 134% higher than Texas. Throwing poor people under the bus (they're most impacted by high energy prices) so you can claim you're green (while opening brand new gas power plants) is pretty awful. South Australia is still building new gas plants. Natural gas, which is nearly as dirty as coal.

shirro 6y ago
South Australia pricing suffers from a failure of deregulation, not renewable power. The gas/wind/solar mix for generation is fine for a state with a very small population and abundant wind, sun and natural gas. SA has very poor deposits of brown coal which were not sustainable and the country lacks any nuclear power expertise. The state privatised their grid and it is now controlled by foreign owners. Many believe the pricing is the result of gold plating. Generation costs have fallen in recent years and wholesale prices are competitive with the other states.
TrainedMonkey 6y ago
I was extremely surprised in claim that Natural gas is nearly as dirty as coal as that contradicted my intuition. So I did some Googling and was not able to find supporting evidence. Below is a quote from: https://www.gasvessel.eu/news/natural-gas-vs-coal-impact-on-the-environment/ https://www.gasvessel.eu/news/natural-gas-vs-coal-impact-on-... > Natural gas is a fossil fuel, though the global warming emissions from its combustion are much lower than those from coal or oil. Natural gas emits 50 to 60 percent less carbon dioxide (CO2) when combusted in a new, efficient natural gas-power plant compared with emissions from a typical new coal plant. From the above natural gas power plants do produce a surprising amount of CO2, but is far far better than new coal plants. Legacy coal plants also are a significant air pollution source, so if we get out of coal power plants by building out natural gas seems like a win. Finally I checked renewables for South Australia and they seems to be doing really great at 53%, compare to U.S. at ~23%: https://indaily.com.au/news/science-and-tech/2021/01/27/sa-renewables-peak-in-2020/ https://indaily.com.au/news/science-and-tech/2021/01/27/sa-r... List of currently operating power plants and the ones under constructions corroborates renewable energy percentage and actually suggests that South Australia is doing great on renewables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Sout...
- 0xy 6y ago
  >Natural gas emits 50 to 60 percent less carbon dioxide You're comparing the absolute best natural gas plant to the average coal plant? The source also isn't neutral. >Finally I checked renewables for South Australia and they seems to be doing really great At the expense of the poor and minorities, which I guess are acceptable collateral damage in this crusade. [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6920209/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6920209/
  - lurgburg 6y ago
    Are you just generally writing about green energy, or about the Telsa battery (the subject of this discussion)? As the ancestor comment noted, the battery saved money, and saving money doesn't increase costs.
  - TrainedMonkey 6y ago
    >You're comparing the absolute best natural gas plant to the average coal plant? The source also isn't neutral. Source claims comparison is for new plants in both directions. Concur it is likely not neutral, do you have a better one? > At the expense of the poor and minorities, which I guess are acceptable collateral damage in this crusade. [1] Disproportional impact of higher energy prices is absolutely a factor... What I do not get is how much better South Australia could have done?
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  The trouble with natural gas is not so much at the site of combustion at the power generating plant - it is at the point of extraction, where methane leaks into the atmosphere unchecked. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/super-potent-methane-in-atmosphere-oil-gas-drilling-ice-cores https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/super-pot...
  - TrainedMonkey 6y ago
    Great point, I assumed that natgas was oil industry byproduct and basically free.