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When I was promoted to mid-level developer at Booking in 2017/2018, the salary range for the position started at around 60k. These days, it's probably in the lo

When I was promoted to mid-level developer at Booking in 2017/2018, the salary range for the position started at around 60k. These days, it's probably in the low 70s.

mistrial9 6y ago
I made $55k per year in 1990 as a software developer in the San Francisco area, but then Apple/Adobe and others here entered into an illegal hiring pact to fight it.. later, Internet.. things changed. Wages for working people, even to some extent software, have been stagnant for thirty years, while the cost of higher education and distinctive homes rose 300 percent, depending on your setup, health care too.. literal evidence, I can see cars advertised for sale that are essentially the same price point as they were in the 1990s (working person's market), yet the Dow Jones market average went from "breaking ten thousand" to what, thirty thousand plus now? Something is very, very suspect with the high-end money game in the last thirty years. People who do actual work? see George Carlin, he will tell you
zeku 6y ago
For comparison I make mid 70s as a mid level dev in a medium cost of living area of the US. I feel that very often when Europe compares itself to the US on this, they only look at the super HCOL areas like SV, Seattle, NYC. I feel like we are underpaid still, compared to SV and NYC devs. For another comparison my coworker was recently promoted to senior dev and he is starting in the mid 90s. Also there is no fancy comp, we have employee health insurance(that we still have to pay for both monthly and when we use any medical service -- for non Americans this is very standard), we have a 401k(retirement portfolio) that our employer matches the first 5% of everything that goes into it. We also have a few other niche benefits, but no fancy comp. I just wanted to give a more realistic portrayal of the usual American dev.
- blunte 6y ago
  I guess this is worth remembering. There are a lot of lower paying dev jobs in the US, but they don't get much publicity :). Part of the problem is lack of awareness, and prior to more recently, lack of remote options. There are countless job boards and recruiting firms, and millions of "candidates" (many of whom fail FizzBuzz, but that is not visible in a simple resume). If the qualified supply and the demand had awareness of each other, and if remote were an option, it would be better for most people. The companies would be able to acquire the talent they needed, and the talent would have better options. On the other hand, the current system works enough... there may be some low quality developers working at some companies, but they just may be getting enough done that the companies can function. And the more skilled, more motivated people will obviously seek and possibly move for the better jobs and pay.
- tharkun__ 6y ago
  401k (or RRSP in Canada where I am) are also something that Europeans differ on. I don't know about the Netherlands. But Germany definitely is seriously lacking in this or ahead depending on your personal preferences. Germany still puts a lot of emphasis on the state pension system. They also acknowledged quite some time ago now that they need a private system next to it. But in true German fashion it's very bureaucratic and puts all of your money in some insurance companies hands. Instead of giving you tax free accumulation in whatever financial vehicle you choose, everything has to go through funds that scrape off most of your profits. Well actually they give you ~800EUR of interest/dividend/capital gains tax free. Just so you understand, in Canada I can pay ~$CAD5500 (it changes from year to year) into a tax free savings account with after tax money. None of the gains or dividends from this will ever be taxed. And an RRSP I can contribute 18% of last year's income to (max ~$27.000CAD right now) and the capital gains and dividends from this can grow tax free and I only pay taxes on it once I'm retired and in a lower bracket and contributions lower my current tax burden. And Germany allows me 800EUR of tax free dividends/gains. Laughable. Truly abysmal. (at least instead of paying your regular tax rate on capital gains/dividends beyond those 800EUR, which at max is 45%, you just pay 25% regardless of your income - haha).

When I was promoted to mid-level developer at Booking in 2017/2018, the salary range for the position started at around 60k. These days, it's probably in the low 70s.

mistrial9 6y ago

I made $55k per year in 1990 as a software developer in the San Francisco area, but then Apple/Adobe and others here entered into an illegal hiring pact to fight it.. later, Internet.. things changed. Wages for working people, even to some extent software, have been stagnant for thirty years, while the cost of higher education and distinctive homes rose 300 percent, depending on your setup, health care too.. literal evidence, I can see cars advertised for sale that are essentially the same price point as they were in the 1990s (working person's market), yet the Dow Jones market average went from "breaking ten thousand" to what, thirty thousand plus now? Something is very, very suspect with the high-end money game in the last thirty years. People who do actual work? see George Carlin, he will tell you

zeku 6y ago

For comparison I make mid 70s as a mid level dev in a medium cost of living area of the US. I feel that very often when Europe compares itself to the US on this, they only look at the super HCOL areas like SV, Seattle, NYC. I feel like we are underpaid still, compared to SV and NYC devs. For another comparison my coworker was recently promoted to senior dev and he is starting in the mid 90s. Also there is no fancy comp, we have employee health insurance(that we still have to pay for both monthly and when we use any medical service -- for non Americans this is very standard), we have a 401k(retirement portfolio) that our employer matches the first 5% of everything that goes into it. We also have a few other niche benefits, but no fancy comp. I just wanted to give a more realistic portrayal of the usual American dev.

blunte 6y ago
I guess this is worth remembering. There are a lot of lower paying dev jobs in the US, but they don't get much publicity :). Part of the problem is lack of awareness, and prior to more recently, lack of remote options. There are countless job boards and recruiting firms, and millions of "candidates" (many of whom fail FizzBuzz, but that is not visible in a simple resume). If the qualified supply and the demand had awareness of each other, and if remote were an option, it would be better for most people. The companies would be able to acquire the talent they needed, and the talent would have better options. On the other hand, the current system works enough... there may be some low quality developers working at some companies, but they just may be getting enough done that the companies can function. And the more skilled, more motivated people will obviously seek and possibly move for the better jobs and pay.
tharkun__ 6y ago
401k (or RRSP in Canada where I am) are also something that Europeans differ on. I don't know about the Netherlands. But Germany definitely is seriously lacking in this or ahead depending on your personal preferences. Germany still puts a lot of emphasis on the state pension system. They also acknowledged quite some time ago now that they need a private system next to it. But in true German fashion it's very bureaucratic and puts all of your money in some insurance companies hands. Instead of giving you tax free accumulation in whatever financial vehicle you choose, everything has to go through funds that scrape off most of your profits. Well actually they give you ~800EUR of interest/dividend/capital gains tax free. Just so you understand, in Canada I can pay ~$CAD5500 (it changes from year to year) into a tax free savings account with after tax money. None of the gains or dividends from this will ever be taxed. And an RRSP I can contribute 18% of last year's income to (max ~$27.000CAD right now) and the capital gains and dividends from this can grow tax free and I only pay taxes on it once I'm retired and in a lower bracket and contributions lower my current tax burden. And Germany allows me 800EUR of tax free dividends/gains. Laughable. Truly abysmal. (at least instead of paying your regular tax rate on capital gains/dividends beyond those 800EUR, which at max is 45%, you just pay 25% regardless of your income - haha).