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Which was horribly tone deaf, but not incorrect: yes, technological improvements do free up money for food. According to the New York Times, in the 70s your ave
by owenversteeg 6y ago
Which was horribly tone deaf, but not incorrect: yes, technological improvements do free up money for food. According to the New York Times, in the 70s your average car would survive for 100k miles. Today you can buy a car that not only survives more than twice as long, but it has far fewer costs: engines using a tiny fraction of the oil, coolants that last the car's lifetime, spark plugs that last several times as long, incredible safety features...
The 2021 Chevrolet Spark costs $13,400 (and appears to come with $1000 of "bonus cash" that would bring that down to $12.4k?), gets 38 MPG highway, and has a standard rear camera and touchscreen. You can buy it today - a brand new car, of reasonable quality, from a top name American company, for $160-ish a month for a 7-year note. It is far safer than any car sold in the 70s, it accelerates faster than most cars sold in 1970, it has navigation and a backup camera standard in the base model. Its paint and coatings will last forever, its battery is sealed, and it requires nearly zero service in the beginning of its life.
Look at a budget car in 1970 - Car and Driver's recommended budget pick was the Ford Pinto, $2500 as tested. It was described as "uncomfortable" with four adults - you really should stick to two, they said. The fact that the cars were still running after the first 15,000 miles was, according to Car and Driver, "an indication of the soundness of their basic engineering." It had painful, uncomfortable bucket seats. The Pinto, and I quote, "substantially more powerful than normal store-bought economy cars", had a 0-60 time of eighteen seconds - this is a car described as "nimble and powerful" in its time. _All_ of the budget cars delivered to Car and Driver had "serious defects" straight from the factory - in the Pinto's case, the camshaft had been installed incorrectly. Ford apparently built a whole series of them that way, then lost track of which. For a budget car to not squeak while braking was apparently impossible, so instead of discussing _if_ they squeaked reviews discussed how the squeaks sounded (the Pinto was apparently not bad - the Chevy Vega was described as a "depths of hell" squeak.) According to the manufacturer, in the first 24k miles, you would need a minimum of eleven hours of shop time, best case scenario, to keep the vehicle running. People describing their normal use mentioned they added a quart of oil a week to the Pinto - ludicrous today. And I won't even get into the safety of 1970s cars - a reminder that the Ford Pinto was famous for literally exploding into flames (the controversy came eight years later, 1978 or so), but despite this its safety is considered today "comparable to other 1970s subcompact cars" (aka terrible, but not remarkably so for the time.) Despite all this, it was a popular car for the time and got good reviews in its day.
At the current low minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, you would have had to work about the same amount of hours to buy a budget car today as in 1970 - the budget cars of today being spaceships in comparison. Drive a 70s car and a 2020s car down the road and you'll quickly understand that the modern car is a paradise of comfort in comparison - noise, smoothness, how it drives, handles, vibrations, emissions, etc etc. Many Western states have top speed limits of 80 mph, where the flow of traffic is 85 or higher - your Pinto would feel terrifying and be extremely unsafe at such a speed: if you crash you die.
Of course, the same applies to many things. Improvements in phone cameras mean that for many people, the cost of a phone+camera has gotten far cheaper. Quartz watches can last a lifetime and are far more accurate than mechanical watches. Remote control toys, flashlights, batteries, lightbulbs, washing machines - all cheaper. These things add up!
Reading your other comments in the adjacent thread, I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. Yes, a CPU that is 10% faster has little marginal utility, and it does not provide you with much (if any) dollar savings in your pocket. But at the same time, the largest single-year increase in the price of bananas in the last few decades was a few cents a pound: those few cents in your pocket don't really do much either. For increases in both the cost of living and food, you're going to have to look at the ten- or twenty-year picture. Look at the total cost of a laptop that meets your average Joe's requirements. Look at the total cost of ownership of a car. Look at the cost of lightbulbs, toothbrushes and bicycles.
So yes, he is correct: technological improvements do cancel out increases in the cost of living elsewhere! The few bucks you save by not topping up your oil can pay for more expensive bananas, the thousands you save by your car lasting longer can pay for higher rent, the hundreds you save by not needing a camera can pay for a fatter bar tab. But, at the same time, tone deaf to say that to a working class audience in Queens NY in the depths of a recession while you're bailing out the big banks.
- dlubarov 6y agoIt seems like an implicit premise in that line of reasoning is that consumers have a choice: they can increase their spending if they want a quality upgrade, or they can forgo the upgrade and keep their spending relatively constant. In some cases, though, there often isn't much of a choice. I can't buy a (new-ish) car without a rear-view camera, now that they're mandated. I can't hire a builder and tell him that I don't need GFCI outlets, or HVAC, or fire sprinklers; it's all required by code. If I wanted a ~1000 square foot house, I could have built one 50 years ago, but today my planning department wouldn't approve. Similarly, I might have been content with the experience of using my iPhone 4 back in 2010, but I can't recreate that for much cheaper today. Even if I could buy an iPhone 4 for cheap, it no longer receives security updates, and many apps have dropped support, or at least focus their QA on newer devices. Or I might have been content with the 2mbps connection my ISP offered back in 2000, but now their plans start at 50mbps. Even if I could find a cheap 2mbps plan, it wouldn't be as practical given the bloated state of websites today. (I mean it's doable, buy my quality of experience would be much lower than it was in 2000.)
- owenversteeg 6y agoWell, except that you do have that choice in most things. You can buy a used car without a rear-view camera, or keep your older car - and many people do. If you want a cheap smartphone, you can get one - I recently had a Nokia 1 (cost me 24 euros!) as an experiment, and it worked fine. If you're content with a TV from 2001, you can get one for free off Craigslist. The reason I like the car as an example is because it is a quality upgrade and also a lower cost. A vehicle with more than twice the lifespan translates directly into cash in your pocket. You save cash on a regular basis by not needing to purchase a quart of oil a week, 11 hours of mechanic time (while the car is still new!), more expensive tires, more spark plugs, more coolant, etc. I get your point that quality upgrades are _occasionally_ mandatory, but the majority are not. If you want to save money by skipping the improvements (get a TV, flashlight, keyboard etc from 2001, or a more spartan smartphone) - go ahead, plenty of people do, and they save money for it. But if you want the latest tech, and a palace on wheels, and international travel, and organic food, and a fancy university on your resume, well, those things cost money. Fun fact - community college enrollment has dropped year over year for about a decade now (today it stands at almost half of its peak enrollment.) There are plenty of budget smartphones, but the most popular phone in the world by far is the non-SE current-year iPhone, costing $800 to $1600 depending on configuration and the place you buy it in. A safety razor is cheap and effective (I use one) but Gilette sells millions of copies of expensive razors. The American middle class, in particular, wants to consume at a very high level, increasing every year, and it will not be satisfied with less. Interestingly, this consumption has shaped the political debate on the American left. Student loan forgiveness, which as planned today would be a colossal handout to the upper middle class, is wildly popular. Money for the millions of Americans living in true poverty is discussed nowhere, while left circles are furious that couples making 160k won't get any extra thousands with the latest stimulus bill.