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This is more or less analogous to Blackberry moving to Android, isn’t it? Storied, old-guard tech company loses most of its market share, trades in its first-pa

This is more or less analogous to Blackberry moving to Android, isn’t it? Storied, old-guard tech company loses most of its market share, trades in its first-party stack for a rising open-source alternative. Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? Or is this the last-ditch effort of a fallen star of the semi market?

abrowne 6y ago
They're even changing the name of the company to MIPS, just like RIM → Blackberry (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389870 One big difference is most consumers, and I think even many companies using the chips, don't really care what architecture they are using, unlike with an end-user OS/"ecosystem". So if they can use their abilities and experience from MIPS to make RISC-V chips with good price to performance, they could do OK.
MisterTea 6y ago
> Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? Or is this the last ditch effort of a fallen star of the semi market? Mips has seemingly been on life support sine the late 90's. I kind of think the SGI buyout and later spin-off doomed them as they were focused on building high performance workstation processors while Arm was busy focusing on low power and embedded systems. Guess who was better prepared for the mobile revolution of the 00's?
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  It's interesting that that's where they've been focused, because my only exposure to MIPS chips has been in low-cost Mikrotik routerboards, eg: https://mikrotik.com/product/RB450 https://mikrotik.com/product/RB450
  - tyingq 6y ago
    I imagine MIPS (via Atheros, Broadcom, etc) was broadly deployed in things like home routers because it was royalty free, power efficient, and already had Linux kernel mainline support. Though probably losing share to ARM now.
    - theodric 6y ago
      Indeed, Asus moved from MIPS to ARM between the RT-AC66U and RT-AC68U, and the various *pkg repos have since dropped support. MIPS may as well be dead.
    - rjsw 6y ago
      Think they are used for the network offload engine in some ethernet adaptors too.
  - pajko 6y ago
    MIPS was being used in set-top-boxes and media players as well, like https://www.imaginationtech.com/blog/dont-let-the-cpu-control-you/ https://www.imaginationtech.com/blog/dont-let-the-cpu-contro...
  - Keyframe 6y ago
    Powered all SGI workstations up to the end (excluding Windows NT adventure SGI had), and powered both Nintendo 64 and Playstation (1). MIPS was quite hot back then.
UncleOxidant 6y ago
> Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? No, not at this point. RISC-V already has plenty of momentum without this. The only thing that might change that analysis is if MIPS has some architecture patents that they could leverage to get some kind of RISC-V performance advantage. But I doubt they have anything like that now. And it's not like they have a stable of CPU designers that are now going to be switched from working on MIPS to working on RISC-V - they likely haven't had any of those folks working there since the 90s.
scj 6y ago
It likely forces an inflection point for existing MIPS users: 1. Stick with MIPS for as long as possible. 2. Follow MIPS into RISC-V. 3. Or go to some other camp.
slezyr 6y ago
Check your router's CPU. I own 4 routers and all of them use MIPS. RISC-V is more like Graphene, it's yet to leave the lab.
- makomk 6y ago
  Home routers used to be one of the last holdouts of MIPS, but all the modern ones have been switching to ARM. It's pretty much on its last legs there aside from the really cheap, low-end stuff.
  - dfox 6y ago
    It is not that way today but for a long time the entry-level Cisco IOS router was PowerPC based, while the highend was invariably MIPS. On the other hand both architectural choices had nothing to do with the architecture and everything to do with choice of usable SoCs for that particular application (with Motorola/Freescale/NXP's "m68k Cisco router/Sun2 on a chip" SoCs being somewhat ironic in this regard).
    - genmud 6y ago
      I wouldn't consider cisco to be a tech-forward company or look to them as the barometer to where the networking industry is headed. Most of Broadcoms stuff is ARM based now, which is what most folks are putting in white label switches.
      - bnjms 6y ago
        Fwiw, Broadcom is also what’s going into Cisco routers. Which supports your point.
- gnufx 6y ago
  Ho, ho. Graphene has left the lab, but it's only got as far as the hype mill, not the factory. https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/the-university-unveil-new-graphene-graduation-gowns/ https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/the-university-un... was a notable success though; and allegedly graphene-powered trainers there on a different date. In contrast, with RISC-V you can put your hand in your pocket for early models, can't you?
genmud 6y ago
> Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? Or is this the last-ditch effort of a fallen star of the semi market? Not really, I think the only thing they have going for them is that they probably have IP cores that would port easily and have history. However, places like SiFive [1] appear to have early mover advantage and are likely to be quicker to gain critical mass. [1] - https://www.sifive.com/risc-v-core-ip https://www.sifive.com/risc-v-core-ip

abrowne 6y ago

They're even changing the name of the company to MIPS, just like RIM → Blackberry (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389870 One big difference is most consumers, and I think even many companies using the chips, don't really care what architecture they are using, unlike with an end-user OS/"ecosystem". So if they can use their abilities and experience from MIPS to make RISC-V chips with good price to performance, they could do OK.

MisterTea 6y ago

> Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? Or is this the last ditch effort of a fallen star of the semi market? Mips has seemingly been on life support sine the late 90's. I kind of think the SGI buyout and later spin-off doomed them as they were focused on building high performance workstation processors while Arm was busy focusing on low power and embedded systems. Guess who was better prepared for the mobile revolution of the 00's?

mikepurvis 6y ago
It's interesting that that's where they've been focused, because my only exposure to MIPS chips has been in low-cost Mikrotik routerboards, eg: https://mikrotik.com/product/RB450 https://mikrotik.com/product/RB450
- tyingq 6y ago
  I imagine MIPS (via Atheros, Broadcom, etc) was broadly deployed in things like home routers because it was royalty free, power efficient, and already had Linux kernel mainline support. Though probably losing share to ARM now.
  - theodric 6y ago
    Indeed, Asus moved from MIPS to ARM between the RT-AC66U and RT-AC68U, and the various *pkg repos have since dropped support. MIPS may as well be dead.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    Think they are used for the network offload engine in some ethernet adaptors too.
- pajko 6y ago
  MIPS was being used in set-top-boxes and media players as well, like https://www.imaginationtech.com/blog/dont-let-the-cpu-control-you/ https://www.imaginationtech.com/blog/dont-let-the-cpu-contro...
- Keyframe 6y ago
  Powered all SGI workstations up to the end (excluding Windows NT adventure SGI had), and powered both Nintendo 64 and Playstation (1). MIPS was quite hot back then.

UncleOxidant 6y ago

> Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? No, not at this point. RISC-V already has plenty of momentum without this. The only thing that might change that analysis is if MIPS has some architecture patents that they could leverage to get some kind of RISC-V performance advantage. But I doubt they have anything like that now. And it's not like they have a stable of CPU designers that are now going to be switched from working on MIPS to working on RISC-V - they likely haven't had any of those folks working there since the 90s.

scj 6y ago

It likely forces an inflection point for existing MIPS users: 1. Stick with MIPS for as long as possible. 2. Follow MIPS into RISC-V. 3. Or go to some other camp.

slezyr 6y ago

Check your router's CPU. I own 4 routers and all of them use MIPS. RISC-V is more like Graphene, it's yet to leave the lab.

makomk 6y ago
Home routers used to be one of the last holdouts of MIPS, but all the modern ones have been switching to ARM. It's pretty much on its last legs there aside from the really cheap, low-end stuff.
- dfox 6y ago
  It is not that way today but for a long time the entry-level Cisco IOS router was PowerPC based, while the highend was invariably MIPS. On the other hand both architectural choices had nothing to do with the architecture and everything to do with choice of usable SoCs for that particular application (with Motorola/Freescale/NXP's "m68k Cisco router/Sun2 on a chip" SoCs being somewhat ironic in this regard).
  - genmud 6y ago
    I wouldn't consider cisco to be a tech-forward company or look to them as the barometer to where the networking industry is headed. Most of Broadcoms stuff is ARM based now, which is what most folks are putting in white label switches.
    - bnjms 6y ago
      Fwiw, Broadcom is also what’s going into Cisco routers. Which supports your point.
gnufx 6y ago
Ho, ho. Graphene has left the lab, but it's only got as far as the hype mill, not the factory. https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/the-university-unveil-new-graphene-graduation-gowns/ https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/the-university-un... was a notable success though; and allegedly graphene-powered trainers there on a different date. In contrast, with RISC-V you can put your hand in your pocket for early models, can't you?

genmud 6y ago

> Is MIPS still a big enough name to make this much of a coup for RISC-V? Or is this the last-ditch effort of a fallen star of the semi market? Not really, I think the only thing they have going for them is that they probably have IP cores that would port easily and have history. However, places like SiFive [1] appear to have early mover advantage and are likely to be quicker to gain critical mass. [1] - https://www.sifive.com/risc-v-core-ip https://www.sifive.com/risc-v-core-ip