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IMAP IDLE push support for any server that supports it, good configurability in settings for a wide range of advanced power user features, and good private-by-d

by g_p 6y ago

IMAP IDLE push support for any server that supports it, good configurability in settings for a wide range of advanced power user features, and good private-by-default settings (avoiding and blocking tracking pixels/images in emails, and stripping known tracking parameters from links you click, etc.) Those would be my top 3 personally.

tadfisher 6y ago
IDLE is especially difficult on recent Android versions without a hosted service piping through FCM. You may be able to get away with a foreground service that displays a permanent notification, but I believe Android 11 or 12 limits even those services so you cannot have a persistent process keeping a socket open. Power usage would be an interesting problem as well, because I'm not sure if keeping a socket open would pin the radio active.
- g_p 6y ago
  I haven't had any issues on Android 11 with FairEmail using a foreground service. I believe that the changes coming in 12 are able to be worked around though, and at minimum a version distributed outside of the Play Store won't be affected. There's some get-outs to Google's changes at least as they stand right now, but who knows if that will remain the case in subsequent versions. I haven't seen any suggestion the radio is being pinned active - it seems to still sleep fine, and I believe an incoming messages triggers a downlink page to the phone, which will then wake the radio to deliver the packets.
licebmi__at__ 6y ago
Doesn't k9 already supports IDLE? I kinda remember researching about this years ago, unfortunately, IDLE on it's own is no equivalent to native push notifications that use google services. Either way, it was just a hobby research and I might be wrong.
- aasasd 6y ago
  Last time I looked into this, K9 didn't work in background continuously (since Android requires displaying a notification for that, and K9 never implemented it). And nothing seems to be happening in this regard. However, I wasn't able to make FairMail to deliver without a considerable delay either—despite it displaying a notification and being excluded from ‘battery optimization’. But apparently it's just me.
  - g_p 6y ago
    Out of interest, do you use a phone with a custom OEM firmware that has battery-saving features. I've seen issue with FairEmail (and other well-behaved foreground-service using apps) on some OEMs' firmwares. Heck, sometimes even big-name OEMs like Samsung cause issues. On "pure" Android (thinking Pixel, and the relatively pure Motorola devices, etc.) there's no delays at all - it's really impressive. I'll get the notification on my phone consistently before on my PC.
    - aasasd 6y ago
      It's a Pixel. Starting with 9 or 10, Android limits apps' background activity unless they show a notification (and probably has limits for those too when the screen is off). Plenty of apps had to deal with this, I have four of these notifications. These limits don't apply to notifications via Google's services (GCM or whatever they're currently called). So if you're using the Gmail app or another app for a specific mail service, sure you will receive push notifications quickly.
      - g_p 6y ago
        Interesting - I've not been able to reproduce this on a Pixel 3a or 4a 5G. FairEmail, with foreground notification, doesn't have any issues delivering notifications. As you say, Google is making it a lot harder, but FE with a foreground notification seems to do this fine for me.
  - muppetman 6y ago
    EDIT: See comment below this - it appears I might be talking out my bottom. It's easy to change an app's background ability in Android. By default apps are forced into the background, but if you change that your k9 email will notify you all day long (it does support IDLE)

by g_p 6y ago

tadfisher 6y ago

IDLE is especially difficult on recent Android versions without a hosted service piping through FCM. You may be able to get away with a foreground service that displays a permanent notification, but I believe Android 11 or 12 limits even those services so you cannot have a persistent process keeping a socket open. Power usage would be an interesting problem as well, because I'm not sure if keeping a socket open would pin the radio active.

g_p 6y ago
I haven't had any issues on Android 11 with FairEmail using a foreground service. I believe that the changes coming in 12 are able to be worked around though, and at minimum a version distributed outside of the Play Store won't be affected. There's some get-outs to Google's changes at least as they stand right now, but who knows if that will remain the case in subsequent versions. I haven't seen any suggestion the radio is being pinned active - it seems to still sleep fine, and I believe an incoming messages triggers a downlink page to the phone, which will then wake the radio to deliver the packets.

licebmi__at__ 6y ago

Doesn't k9 already supports IDLE? I kinda remember researching about this years ago, unfortunately, IDLE on it's own is no equivalent to native push notifications that use google services. Either way, it was just a hobby research and I might be wrong.

aasasd 6y ago
Last time I looked into this, K9 didn't work in background continuously (since Android requires displaying a notification for that, and K9 never implemented it). And nothing seems to be happening in this regard. However, I wasn't able to make FairMail to deliver without a considerable delay either—despite it displaying a notification and being excluded from ‘battery optimization’. But apparently it's just me.
- g_p 6y ago
  Out of interest, do you use a phone with a custom OEM firmware that has battery-saving features. I've seen issue with FairEmail (and other well-behaved foreground-service using apps) on some OEMs' firmwares. Heck, sometimes even big-name OEMs like Samsung cause issues. On "pure" Android (thinking Pixel, and the relatively pure Motorola devices, etc.) there's no delays at all - it's really impressive. I'll get the notification on my phone consistently before on my PC.
  - aasasd 6y ago
    It's a Pixel. Starting with 9 or 10, Android limits apps' background activity unless they show a notification (and probably has limits for those too when the screen is off). Plenty of apps had to deal with this, I have four of these notifications. These limits don't apply to notifications via Google's services (GCM or whatever they're currently called). So if you're using the Gmail app or another app for a specific mail service, sure you will receive push notifications quickly.
    - g_p 6y ago
      Interesting - I've not been able to reproduce this on a Pixel 3a or 4a 5G. FairEmail, with foreground notification, doesn't have any issues delivering notifications. As you say, Google is making it a lot harder, but FE with a foreground notification seems to do this fine for me.
- muppetman 6y ago
  EDIT: See comment below this - it appears I might be talking out my bottom. It's easy to change an app's background ability in Android. By default apps are forced into the background, but if you change that your k9 email will notify you all day long (it does support IDLE)