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Eastern Europe was super hungry in 90s. Sort of like picturesque US startups? Give us a hope and we'll work 24/7 to achieve the impossible. Meanwhile Western E

by mantas 6y ago

Eastern Europe was super hungry in 90s. Sort of like picturesque US startups? Give us a hope and we'll work 24/7 to achieve the impossible. Meanwhile Western Europe. Feels much more.. complacent? if that's the right word. Looking from the East, West looks like smug underachievers riding on forefathers' fame.

piva00 6y ago
So it's code for saying that Eastern Europeans work hard and Westerners are lazy... Look, I came from Brazil, working 10-12h/day was common for most of my 10 years career there. It doesn't bring prosperity, it doesn't get rewarded, working hard and not taking breaks is no measure of success. As much as you think this is the way to emulate because of US's wealth I'd say to think again about this bold assumption, you are being extremely reductionist and topping it off with some xenophobia. I don't like it.
- mantas 6y ago
  Ah yes, sorry I forgot we're not allowed to criticise anybody anymore. And I was talking about true hard working, not butt-in-seat theatre. And we sure got rewarded here in Eastern Europe. Just look at statistics comparing east/west in 1990 and today.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - piva00 6y ago
    You are completely allowed to criticise if you have arguments for it, calling whole nations lazy is, at minimum, a ignorant reductionism. Also, it feeds into this weird narrative of "hard-working East" vs "lazy West" nations, the same reversed argument used by xenophobes and racists on the West against the inclusion of the East in the EU, I really dislike this type of argument as it's not constructive and completely shallow, just feeding into a hateful narrative. How much would you like to be called one of the numerous Eastern European stereotypes? You didn't get rewarded simply by working hard, go check Latin America (Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, etc.) and see how fucking hard the people there work, which, unlike in the EU, doesn't have support from the US, the country that extracts most of the value and productivity from these nations. There are a lot of geopolitical and economical factors for the rise of the East in Europe, one of these factors is exactly by being included in the EU and participating on the free market with richer nations, that propped up the economy of the bloc as a whole... Stop feeding into this bullshit narrative, it's dangerous.
    - mantas 6y ago
      I'm sorry I didn't write out a long essay detailing all my arguments and backing them up with all sorts of statistics. This is short dumb comments online, not academic work. TBH a lot of Eastern european stereotypes are truth. Unfortunately we did export a lot of criminals and welfare seekers. We joke all the time how after joining EU streets became safe the next weekend. In reality it took a bit longer :) It's funny how you want to read that I'm saying that people were working hard. No, I'm saying that people work(ed?) hard and smart. Maybe sometimes too smart skewing regulations. It's not bullshit narrative, it's your xenophobia :) See, I can play this game too. Now on a more serious note, sure it's not just hard/smart work. There're a lot of reasons. For example, leading up to WW2, there was no big discrepancy between east and west. When Soviet era was over, nothing was stopping East from bouncing back to where it should be. I don't see how stating that West is more rich and people take it for granted and happy with what they have is "hateful". I'm not saying "you fools live on our hard work". I'm saying "we're catching up and fast and that's awesome. But that's partially on you, because you seem to be not trying to level up anymore". I wish all europeans would get more hungry and get ready to take on Asia. Is wishing for people to become more active/hungry/whateveryouwanttocallit "hate"?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by mantas 6y ago

piva00 6y ago

So it's code for saying that Eastern Europeans work hard and Westerners are lazy... Look, I came from Brazil, working 10-12h/day was common for most of my 10 years career there. It doesn't bring prosperity, it doesn't get rewarded, working hard and not taking breaks is no measure of success. As much as you think this is the way to emulate because of US's wealth I'd say to think again about this bold assumption, you are being extremely reductionist and topping it off with some xenophobia. I don't like it.

mantas 6y ago
Ah yes, sorry I forgot we're not allowed to criticise anybody anymore. And I was talking about true hard working, not butt-in-seat theatre. And we sure got rewarded here in Eastern Europe. Just look at statistics comparing east/west in 1990 and today.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- piva00 6y ago
  You are completely allowed to criticise if you have arguments for it, calling whole nations lazy is, at minimum, a ignorant reductionism. Also, it feeds into this weird narrative of "hard-working East" vs "lazy West" nations, the same reversed argument used by xenophobes and racists on the West against the inclusion of the East in the EU, I really dislike this type of argument as it's not constructive and completely shallow, just feeding into a hateful narrative. How much would you like to be called one of the numerous Eastern European stereotypes? You didn't get rewarded simply by working hard, go check Latin America (Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, etc.) and see how fucking hard the people there work, which, unlike in the EU, doesn't have support from the US, the country that extracts most of the value and productivity from these nations. There are a lot of geopolitical and economical factors for the rise of the East in Europe, one of these factors is exactly by being included in the EU and participating on the free market with richer nations, that propped up the economy of the bloc as a whole... Stop feeding into this bullshit narrative, it's dangerous.
  - mantas 6y ago
    I'm sorry I didn't write out a long essay detailing all my arguments and backing them up with all sorts of statistics. This is short dumb comments online, not academic work. TBH a lot of Eastern european stereotypes are truth. Unfortunately we did export a lot of criminals and welfare seekers. We joke all the time how after joining EU streets became safe the next weekend. In reality it took a bit longer :) It's funny how you want to read that I'm saying that people were working hard. No, I'm saying that people work(ed?) hard and smart. Maybe sometimes too smart skewing regulations. It's not bullshit narrative, it's your xenophobia :) See, I can play this game too. Now on a more serious note, sure it's not just hard/smart work. There're a lot of reasons. For example, leading up to WW2, there was no big discrepancy between east and west. When Soviet era was over, nothing was stopping East from bouncing back to where it should be. I don't see how stating that West is more rich and people take it for granted and happy with what they have is "hateful". I'm not saying "you fools live on our hard work". I'm saying "we're catching up and fast and that's awesome. But that's partially on you, because you seem to be not trying to level up anymore". I wish all europeans would get more hungry and get ready to take on Asia. Is wishing for people to become more active/hungry/whateveryouwanttocallit "hate"?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]