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"Being a successful entrepreneur means doing anything and everything it takes to get to success." I think the world would be a healthier place if we didn't pla

by palish 15y ago

"Being a successful entrepreneur means doing anything and everything it takes to get to success." I think the world would be a healthier place if we didn't place so much ... emphasis ... on the idea of "do whatever it takes to succeed". Just look at what Airbnb did to succeed, for example.

jonnathanson 15y ago
Apologies. I have been known to go hog-wild on the italics. It's an addiction I am trying to break. Some people have their exclamation marks. Others have their emoticons. I have my trigger-happy asterisks.
- palish 15y ago
  Er... I didn't mean to make it sound like I was making fun of you. I wasn't, sorry. I'm truly serious: emphasis on "do whatever it takes to succeed" results in people doing illegal and immoral things to succeed, such as what Airbnb did.
  - BrainScraps 15y ago
    I think that's an over-simplification. Call me naive, but I think that to most people, "do whatever it takes to succeed" assumes a certain baseline of ethics in the intended audience. This phrase here is meant to spur the reader to do the right sorts of "anything": being disciplined, getting out of their comfort zone, learning, taking risks, getting their "hands dirty" in good honest work, hacking and building. The author cannot be blamed for those who act immorally because they lack ethical training or discipline.
  - c2 15y ago
    Nothing AirBNB did was illegal or immoral. The most you can say about what they did was that it was mildly annoying.
    - palish 15y ago
      What AirBNB did was directly illegal and immoral. It was illegal because it violated the CAN-SPAM act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#The_mechanics_of_CAN-SPAM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#The_mechan... .... CAN-SPAM defines a "commercial electronic mail message" as "any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service, including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose." (The fact that they weren't punished for their crimes illustrates the hypocrisy of our legal system, but does not change the fact that they violated the law for personal gain.) It was immoral because it violated Craigslist TOS, and because they portrayed themselves as females in order to make other females feel safe using their service.
      - c2 15y ago
        Here's another quote from the page: "In particular, it does not require e-mailers to get permission before they send marketing messages" Can you point to a single case where someone did what AirBNB did and got a conviction? Also, violating craigslist TOS is debatable, pretending to be females is not on it's face immoral.
- zyfo 15y ago
  I think he was referring to this: http://davegooden.com/2011/05/how-airbnb-became-a-billion-dollar-company/ http://davegooden.com/2011/05/how-airbnb-became-a-billion-do... HN thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2603844 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2603844
temphn 15y ago
Given the choice between a world without AirBnB and a few emails to Craigslist users about a better service, most rational people would vote for AirBnB to exist. The ends do justify the means. Just be sure your ends are defensible, and be prepared for blowback if you get too many people clutching their pearls in feigned outrage.
- mattmanser 15y ago
  Because AirBnB have cured cancer? Or was it prevented genocide? Or something, like, worthwhile? Most rational people don't give a flying toss whether Airbnb existed. It's pretty obvious the ends did not justify the means. They're a reservations website, wake up, sniff reality and stop drinking the koolaid. Is it ok the aggravation they've caused to small business owners and the total lying. And that's ok because they did a few cereal packets once? Because they're 'naughty'?
  - k33n 15y ago
    Wow, lots of hate in this thread. I rented a yacht overnight for valentines day for like $200 on AirBnB and my girlfriend was floored. AirBnB actually is changing how I think about travel, and even "just doing something special". They are a very innovative company, and I for one would vote for them to exist if it were up to me.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - naveensundar 15y ago
    Well, it is not like they caused genocide or cancer.
  - erikpukinskis 15y ago
    I won't defend their marketing practices, but I don't give a flying toss if they've made it harder for small businesses. The market changes, old businesses die and new ones are formed. Or are you one of the people who think we should subsidize old businesses so we don't "lose jobs" or whatever? As for rational people caring wither Airbnb existed, I'm pretty rational and I think it's great. They've enabled a lot of microbusinesses. People who have a spare room can rent it out and make some extra cash. It allows people to travel more, and still make rent. It allows people to rent out space in tough times to make extra cash. It allows people to find cheap places to stay when they can't afford a hotel room. I think it's done a lot of good. I'm confused where your negativity is directed. Are you just angry at them for spamming Craigslist?
naveensundar 15y ago
It is okay to break rules once in a while.
Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
I agree with what you're saying, though in this instance I think it's more a case of being willing to turn your hand to whatever needs doing and not being precious about whether it's your job or not, rather than the implied ruthlessness of "doing everything it takes". It's not a bad attitude to have towards most aspects of life really.

by palish 15y ago

jonnathanson 15y ago

Apologies. I have been known to go hog-wild on the italics. It's an addiction I am trying to break. Some people have their exclamation marks. Others have their emoticons. I have my trigger-happy asterisks.

palish 15y ago
Er... I didn't mean to make it sound like I was making fun of you. I wasn't, sorry. I'm truly serious: emphasis on "do whatever it takes to succeed" results in people doing illegal and immoral things to succeed, such as what Airbnb did.
- BrainScraps 15y ago
  I think that's an over-simplification. Call me naive, but I think that to most people, "do whatever it takes to succeed" assumes a certain baseline of ethics in the intended audience. This phrase here is meant to spur the reader to do the right sorts of "anything": being disciplined, getting out of their comfort zone, learning, taking risks, getting their "hands dirty" in good honest work, hacking and building. The author cannot be blamed for those who act immorally because they lack ethical training or discipline.
- c2 15y ago
  Nothing AirBNB did was illegal or immoral. The most you can say about what they did was that it was mildly annoying.
  - palish 15y ago
    What AirBNB did was directly illegal and immoral. It was illegal because it violated the CAN-SPAM act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#The_mechanics_of_CAN-SPAM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#The_mechan... .... CAN-SPAM defines a "commercial electronic mail message" as "any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service, including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose." (The fact that they weren't punished for their crimes illustrates the hypocrisy of our legal system, but does not change the fact that they violated the law for personal gain.) It was immoral because it violated Craigslist TOS, and because they portrayed themselves as females in order to make other females feel safe using their service.
    - c2 15y ago
      Here's another quote from the page: "In particular, it does not require e-mailers to get permission before they send marketing messages" Can you point to a single case where someone did what AirBNB did and got a conviction? Also, violating craigslist TOS is debatable, pretending to be females is not on it's face immoral.
zyfo 15y ago
I think he was referring to this: http://davegooden.com/2011/05/how-airbnb-became-a-billion-dollar-company/ http://davegooden.com/2011/05/how-airbnb-became-a-billion-do... HN thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2603844 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2603844

temphn 15y ago

Given the choice between a world without AirBnB and a few emails to Craigslist users about a better service, most rational people would vote for AirBnB to exist. The ends do justify the means. Just be sure your ends are defensible, and be prepared for blowback if you get too many people clutching their pearls in feigned outrage.

mattmanser 15y ago
Because AirBnB have cured cancer? Or was it prevented genocide? Or something, like, worthwhile? Most rational people don't give a flying toss whether Airbnb existed. It's pretty obvious the ends did not justify the means. They're a reservations website, wake up, sniff reality and stop drinking the koolaid. Is it ok the aggravation they've caused to small business owners and the total lying. And that's ok because they did a few cereal packets once? Because they're 'naughty'?
- k33n 15y ago
  Wow, lots of hate in this thread. I rented a yacht overnight for valentines day for like $200 on AirBnB and my girlfriend was floored. AirBnB actually is changing how I think about travel, and even "just doing something special". They are a very innovative company, and I for one would vote for them to exist if it were up to me.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- naveensundar 15y ago
  Well, it is not like they caused genocide or cancer.
- erikpukinskis 15y ago
  I won't defend their marketing practices, but I don't give a flying toss if they've made it harder for small businesses. The market changes, old businesses die and new ones are formed. Or are you one of the people who think we should subsidize old businesses so we don't "lose jobs" or whatever? As for rational people caring wither Airbnb existed, I'm pretty rational and I think it's great. They've enabled a lot of microbusinesses. People who have a spare room can rent it out and make some extra cash. It allows people to travel more, and still make rent. It allows people to rent out space in tough times to make extra cash. It allows people to find cheap places to stay when they can't afford a hotel room. I think it's done a lot of good. I'm confused where your negativity is directed. Are you just angry at them for spamming Craigslist?

naveensundar 15y ago

It is okay to break rules once in a while.

Tyrannosaurs 15y ago

I agree with what you're saying, though in this instance I think it's more a case of being willing to turn your hand to whatever needs doing and not being precious about whether it's your job or not, rather than the implied ruthlessness of "doing everything it takes". It's not a bad attitude to have towards most aspects of life really.