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Wow, I'd like to hear more about the subsea cable [1] technology used. In terms of economics and geopolitics, this sounds like a win-win scenario. Perhaps neces

Wow, I'd like to hear more about the subsea cable [1] technology used. In terms of economics and geopolitics, this sounds like a win-win scenario. Perhaps necessity will force the eastern Mediterranean to re-emerge as an economic powerhouse. Southern Italy, Croatia, Turkey, and Egypt should pay attention. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_power_cable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_power_cable

mschuster91 6y ago
> Perhaps necessity will force the eastern Mediterranean to re-emerge as an economic powerhouse As a half Croat: sorry, won't happen. Croatia's economy is tourism dominated and will stay that way. There is a bit of agriculture and industry (especially shipbuilding), but nowhere enough to compete with heavyweights such as Germany. For those out of the loop: the Balkans have historically suffered from brain drain - first during the Yugoslavia era where many fled/emigrated from realcommunism, then during the wars for obvious reasons, and now simply because Germany and other EU nations pay way better and those who don't find work in tourism find it elsewhere in Europe instead. Good luck finding a nurse on the Balkans... Germany has to recruit from the Philippines meanwhile. The fact that Croatian (and other Balkan countries') politics are extremely corrupt doesn't help much either, it's really sad. Regarding Southern Italy: similar situation re/ brain drain, plus the added complexity of having to deal with the Mafiya. Regarding Turkey: Turkey already is an economic powerhorse and a regional hard-power leader - the early Erdogan years showed what Turkey is capable of. Unfortunately Erdogan turned into Erdolf and investors are pretty much shying away from Turkey as a result of the instability, not to mention that Turkey is directly adjacent to the Syria cluster-fuck.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  As a Greek, this is accurate, and Greece has the same brain drain problems as well. All my university-educated friends now live and work abroad.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Another parallel between our countries is that we both have "centrists" in power that are actually rather on the far-right... well, that happens when all young and progressive minds leave for greener fields. :(
    - StavrosK 6y ago
      Yep :/ Nothing is going to improve when none of the people who want things to improve can bear to stay.
    - monoideism 6y ago
      You have two major political parties that have vied for power since the war, and only one of those of is of the right (HDZ). And it has little to do with "progressive" minds, and everything to do with opportunity. I personally have known Croatians of all politics who have left the country due to lack of opportunity, not because they were progressive. Also, leaving the country because of lack of opportunity becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
  - egeozcan 6y ago
    Which is also correct for Turkey. I'm just a data-point, but Facebook showed me that nearly everyone who can get a job and a visa will leave and, IMHO, not just because of Erdoğan. He was the reason I left but I decided to stay in Germany permanently for other reasons, and those other reasons are probably more clear to others now even before leaving the country. Related: Turkey is not an economic powerhouse at all. You can't have such a fragile economy and still be called that. You think Erdoğan keeps poking at sensitive matters because he has power to do so? Those are just distractions.
- sradman 6y ago
  The geography of southern Italy, Croatia, and Greece place all three at a disadvantage compared to continental nations connected via road, rail, and canal. The Mediterranean is a comparative advantage that can be leveraged. The natural beauty that attracts tourism can help repatriate the talented diasporas. The question is whether brain drain, crime, and corruption are due to incurable pathologies or symptoms of transient disadvantages.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > The Mediterranean is a comparative advantage that can be leveraged. How? There isn't much trade between Africa/Arabia and Europe other than oil, some agricultural products and used cars/outright waste. > The natural beauty that attracts tourism can help repatriate the talented diasporas. That's already the case in Croatia, many pensioners who worked in richer European countries retire back in Croatia because they can "live like kings" from pensions that would barely fetch a 1br micro apartment otherwise. For 500€ you can get a 75 m² flat in the center of Rijeka - in Munich that would be around 1500-2000€. And those in working age... it's rare for them to return to their homelands for that reason. > The question is whether brain drain, crime, and corruption are due to incurable pathologies or symptoms of transient disadvantages. Neither, in my opinion. "Incurable pathologies" is bordering on racism, but it aren't "transient" issues on the other side. What's needed is massive amounts of wealth redistribution across Europe, combined with throwing the whole lot of political elites into jail (and that's also sadly valid for Germany, just look at Andreas Scheuer or the MPs who allegedly got huge kickbacks for anti-corona masks). Basically Europe would need something like what the US did post-1945: a complete clean-up. Absent that, I'd also accept a revolution of the masses, but that isn't on the pipelines anywhere except in France...
    - sradman 6y ago
      How? Subsea power cables, optical fiber, and pipelines (?). Midsize autonomous ships providing a cost effective alternative to truck and rail transport. Promotion of English as the lingua franca. Policies that attract new talent and promote the free movement of goods and people between new coastal charter cities. Partnering with people in the same boat (or sea). Adam Smith not only promoted specialization but also extending the "reach" of trade. Politicians have the power to ruin things but they only succeed when riding the coat-tails of talented makers. I'd focus on promoting the makers rather than punishing past ruiners. Nihilism is never the answer.

mschuster91 6y ago

> Perhaps necessity will force the eastern Mediterranean to re-emerge as an economic powerhouse As a half Croat: sorry, won't happen. Croatia's economy is tourism dominated and will stay that way. There is a bit of agriculture and industry (especially shipbuilding), but nowhere enough to compete with heavyweights such as Germany. For those out of the loop: the Balkans have historically suffered from brain drain - first during the Yugoslavia era where many fled/emigrated from realcommunism, then during the wars for obvious reasons, and now simply because Germany and other EU nations pay way better and those who don't find work in tourism find it elsewhere in Europe instead. Good luck finding a nurse on the Balkans... Germany has to recruit from the Philippines meanwhile. The fact that Croatian (and other Balkan countries') politics are extremely corrupt doesn't help much either, it's really sad. Regarding Southern Italy: similar situation re/ brain drain, plus the added complexity of having to deal with the Mafiya. Regarding Turkey: Turkey already is an economic powerhorse and a regional hard-power leader - the early Erdogan years showed what Turkey is capable of. Unfortunately Erdogan turned into Erdolf and investors are pretty much shying away from Turkey as a result of the instability, not to mention that Turkey is directly adjacent to the Syria cluster-fuck.

StavrosK 6y ago
As a Greek, this is accurate, and Greece has the same brain drain problems as well. All my university-educated friends now live and work abroad.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Another parallel between our countries is that we both have "centrists" in power that are actually rather on the far-right... well, that happens when all young and progressive minds leave for greener fields. :(
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Yep :/ Nothing is going to improve when none of the people who want things to improve can bear to stay.
  - monoideism 6y ago
    You have two major political parties that have vied for power since the war, and only one of those of is of the right (HDZ). And it has little to do with "progressive" minds, and everything to do with opportunity. I personally have known Croatians of all politics who have left the country due to lack of opportunity, not because they were progressive. Also, leaving the country because of lack of opportunity becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
- egeozcan 6y ago
  Which is also correct for Turkey. I'm just a data-point, but Facebook showed me that nearly everyone who can get a job and a visa will leave and, IMHO, not just because of Erdoğan. He was the reason I left but I decided to stay in Germany permanently for other reasons, and those other reasons are probably more clear to others now even before leaving the country. Related: Turkey is not an economic powerhouse at all. You can't have such a fragile economy and still be called that. You think Erdoğan keeps poking at sensitive matters because he has power to do so? Those are just distractions.
sradman 6y ago
The geography of southern Italy, Croatia, and Greece place all three at a disadvantage compared to continental nations connected via road, rail, and canal. The Mediterranean is a comparative advantage that can be leveraged. The natural beauty that attracts tourism can help repatriate the talented diasporas. The question is whether brain drain, crime, and corruption are due to incurable pathologies or symptoms of transient disadvantages.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > The Mediterranean is a comparative advantage that can be leveraged. How? There isn't much trade between Africa/Arabia and Europe other than oil, some agricultural products and used cars/outright waste. > The natural beauty that attracts tourism can help repatriate the talented diasporas. That's already the case in Croatia, many pensioners who worked in richer European countries retire back in Croatia because they can "live like kings" from pensions that would barely fetch a 1br micro apartment otherwise. For 500€ you can get a 75 m² flat in the center of Rijeka - in Munich that would be around 1500-2000€. And those in working age... it's rare for them to return to their homelands for that reason. > The question is whether brain drain, crime, and corruption are due to incurable pathologies or symptoms of transient disadvantages. Neither, in my opinion. "Incurable pathologies" is bordering on racism, but it aren't "transient" issues on the other side. What's needed is massive amounts of wealth redistribution across Europe, combined with throwing the whole lot of political elites into jail (and that's also sadly valid for Germany, just look at Andreas Scheuer or the MPs who allegedly got huge kickbacks for anti-corona masks). Basically Europe would need something like what the US did post-1945: a complete clean-up. Absent that, I'd also accept a revolution of the masses, but that isn't on the pipelines anywhere except in France...
  - sradman 6y ago
    How? Subsea power cables, optical fiber, and pipelines (?). Midsize autonomous ships providing a cost effective alternative to truck and rail transport. Promotion of English as the lingua franca. Policies that attract new talent and promote the free movement of goods and people between new coastal charter cities. Partnering with people in the same boat (or sea). Adam Smith not only promoted specialization but also extending the "reach" of trade. Politicians have the power to ruin things but they only succeed when riding the coat-tails of talented makers. I'd focus on promoting the makers rather than punishing past ruiners. Nihilism is never the answer.