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The moral argument in favor of rejecting this app pivots around whether it does in fact enable more drunk driving. If it does, there doesn't seem to be good jus

The moral argument in favor of rejecting this app pivots around whether it does in fact enable more drunk driving. If it does, there doesn't seem to be good justification for allowing the app to exist. I don't think the calculus should be any more complicated than this. Edit: I'll disclaim that I have a bias, having had a friend die drinking and driving.

mw1234 15y ago
Should the calculus for banning vehicles or alcohol be any more complicated than whether they enable more drunk driving?
- siglesias 15y ago
  When I say "enable," I mean "encourage more of," which implies preexistence of a problem that is being exacerbated.
qubit 15y ago
I disagree. I think the argument is more about who gets to decide what is "moral" and who gets to promote/enforce that morality.
- siglesias 15y ago
  OK, may I ask who that is that should make this call? If I have a kill switch on my platform for apps that endanger people and I see that the app is endangering people, I'll feel a moral obligation to toggle that kill switch. Again, this is a rather straightforward call.
  - WiseWeasel 15y ago
    The user should make the call, obviously, or perhaps the user's legal guardian if the user is a minor, or maybe the device owner if the user is not the owner, such as a corporate user. The platform vendor should not have final say over the software an end user may wish to run. The restriction of software distribution to Apple's own app store on such a popular computing platform has serious ramifications to consumer interest if not exercised very carefully to be perfectly aligned with them.
  - nirvdrum 15y ago
    In Massachusetts it's illegal to drive and use SMS. Similar legislation is being or has been passed in other states. Should Apple then disable SMS during rush hour? Should it detect you're in a car and shut the phone down? Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of drunk drivers and I'm less a fan of people screwing with their phones while they drive, which seems a whole lot less safer. But it's arguably something Apple and/or the carriers could address. However, I don't think it's right for them to do so. I guess it's the whole slippery slope thing. And FWIW, I do turn around if I think a roadblock is ahead, regardless of whether I've been drinking. It's a hassle and I don't trust I'll get a ticket for something else I'm completely unaware of.
    - siglesias 15y ago
      I think it would save lives if Apple figured out a way to be smart with voice recognition and speech to enable hands and eyes free texting. It absolutely should be on the roadmap for them.
  - qubit 15y ago
    I think the fact that there is s kill switch at all is the problem. The argument being made is that there shouldn't be a person with a platform that has a kill switch. Platforms should be open as opposed to controlled by a single person or entity.
johngalt 15y ago
Perhaps some people take an issue with mandatory police inspections. Someone who's salary I pay, using equipment I bought, forcibly stopping me on a street that I paid to build, and asking me what business I have being there. Edit: What is the criminal penalty for having a .08 while performing law enforcement duties?

mw1234 15y ago

Should the calculus for banning vehicles or alcohol be any more complicated than whether they enable more drunk driving?

siglesias 15y ago
When I say "enable," I mean "encourage more of," which implies preexistence of a problem that is being exacerbated.

qubit 15y ago

I disagree. I think the argument is more about who gets to decide what is "moral" and who gets to promote/enforce that morality.

siglesias 15y ago
OK, may I ask who that is that should make this call? If I have a kill switch on my platform for apps that endanger people and I see that the app is endangering people, I'll feel a moral obligation to toggle that kill switch. Again, this is a rather straightforward call.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  The user should make the call, obviously, or perhaps the user's legal guardian if the user is a minor, or maybe the device owner if the user is not the owner, such as a corporate user. The platform vendor should not have final say over the software an end user may wish to run. The restriction of software distribution to Apple's own app store on such a popular computing platform has serious ramifications to consumer interest if not exercised very carefully to be perfectly aligned with them.
- nirvdrum 15y ago
  In Massachusetts it's illegal to drive and use SMS. Similar legislation is being or has been passed in other states. Should Apple then disable SMS during rush hour? Should it detect you're in a car and shut the phone down? Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of drunk drivers and I'm less a fan of people screwing with their phones while they drive, which seems a whole lot less safer. But it's arguably something Apple and/or the carriers could address. However, I don't think it's right for them to do so. I guess it's the whole slippery slope thing. And FWIW, I do turn around if I think a roadblock is ahead, regardless of whether I've been drinking. It's a hassle and I don't trust I'll get a ticket for something else I'm completely unaware of.
  - siglesias 15y ago
    I think it would save lives if Apple figured out a way to be smart with voice recognition and speech to enable hands and eyes free texting. It absolutely should be on the roadmap for them.
- qubit 15y ago
  I think the fact that there is s kill switch at all is the problem. The argument being made is that there shouldn't be a person with a platform that has a kill switch. Platforms should be open as opposed to controlled by a single person or entity.

johngalt 15y ago

Perhaps some people take an issue with mandatory police inspections. Someone who's salary I pay, using equipment I bought, forcibly stopping me on a street that I paid to build, and asking me what business I have being there. Edit: What is the criminal penalty for having a .08 while performing law enforcement duties?