4 ms·

Your name hints that you had that, just as I had. It didn't work out so well anywhere it was tried, but I'm sure the next time will be different. /sarc

pietrovismara 6y ago
If you refer to the communist dictatorship in Romania, well that didn't work out, but to say it failed because of the will to guarantee the basic needs to everyone, that would be a gross misconception. Regarding Italy: We have social housing that is crippled by bureocracy and corruption, you have to wait years in line to get a flat, so I can't really say we guarantee that. We guarantee education, but we couldn't guarantee the same (good) level of education to everyone yet. Also we don't guarantee post high school education. If you need to work because you're poor and you don't have time to pursue a degree, that's mostly your problem. Food is not guaranteed either, although we have several monetary aids to partially reduce the issue. Healthcare is guaranteed, and excluding waiting times that are a bit long, I can say that healthcare really worked well for us. Nothing is perfect, but nobody is left to die because of preventable disease. No matter how poor you are, you will be treated. So I wouldn't say in Italy we ever experienced what I propose, just a tiny taste of it.
- 1MoreThing 6y ago
  This gets at one of the core beliefs lots of people seem to have about socialism: that human nature means it will be implemented poorly. It's pretty hard to test that out, though, when one side of the political spectrum is so convinced it will happen that they devote a significant amount of political effort to making sure it happens, preventing us from ever finding out what a well-funded and run socialist experiment would look like in the US.
  - mdpopescu 6y ago
    Sure, the experiment failed everywhere / everyWHEN else, but we're special. /more sarcasm
    - pietrovismara 6y ago
      Don't expect people to take you seriously if you just bring sarcasm tags and no factual arguments to the table...
      - captainredbeard 6y ago
        Pointing out that there have been zero sustainable and non-authoritarian socialist entities EVER is a very strong factual argument, FWIW.
        pietrovismara 6y ago
        > socialist entities EVER is a very strong factual argument But it's false. Vietnam works for example, it even handled covid much better than other turbo capitalist powers. And every socialist experiment has been characterized by different approaches and circumstances. Rather than a factual argument, it's more an uninformed generalization, that sounds too close to the propaganda we are pushed on by media/politicians. Do you want a strong factual argument? Despite their claims, not a single capitalist nation has managed to solve poverty. And they won't ever, because without poverty there can't be the hierarchy much needed to force people to behave like cogs into the capitalist machine.

pietrovismara 6y ago

If you refer to the communist dictatorship in Romania, well that didn't work out, but to say it failed because of the will to guarantee the basic needs to everyone, that would be a gross misconception. Regarding Italy: We have social housing that is crippled by bureocracy and corruption, you have to wait years in line to get a flat, so I can't really say we guarantee that. We guarantee education, but we couldn't guarantee the same (good) level of education to everyone yet. Also we don't guarantee post high school education. If you need to work because you're poor and you don't have time to pursue a degree, that's mostly your problem. Food is not guaranteed either, although we have several monetary aids to partially reduce the issue. Healthcare is guaranteed, and excluding waiting times that are a bit long, I can say that healthcare really worked well for us. Nothing is perfect, but nobody is left to die because of preventable disease. No matter how poor you are, you will be treated. So I wouldn't say in Italy we ever experienced what I propose, just a tiny taste of it.

1MoreThing 6y ago
This gets at one of the core beliefs lots of people seem to have about socialism: that human nature means it will be implemented poorly. It's pretty hard to test that out, though, when one side of the political spectrum is so convinced it will happen that they devote a significant amount of political effort to making sure it happens, preventing us from ever finding out what a well-funded and run socialist experiment would look like in the US.
- mdpopescu 6y ago
  Sure, the experiment failed everywhere / everyWHEN else, but we're special. /more sarcasm
  - pietrovismara 6y ago
    Don't expect people to take you seriously if you just bring sarcasm tags and no factual arguments to the table...
    - captainredbeard 6y ago
      Pointing out that there have been zero sustainable and non-authoritarian socialist entities EVER is a very strong factual argument, FWIW.
      - pietrovismara 6y ago
        > socialist entities EVER is a very strong factual argument But it's false. Vietnam works for example, it even handled covid much better than other turbo capitalist powers. And every socialist experiment has been characterized by different approaches and circumstances. Rather than a factual argument, it's more an uninformed generalization, that sounds too close to the propaganda we are pushed on by media/politicians. Do you want a strong factual argument? Despite their claims, not a single capitalist nation has managed to solve poverty. And they won't ever, because without poverty there can't be the hierarchy much needed to force people to behave like cogs into the capitalist machine.