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Typical „the messenger is the problem“ response. When did big tech undergo a societal change? I can’t imagine that the D&D nerds I hung out with in school woul

Typical „the messenger is the problem“ response. When did big tech undergo a societal change? I can’t imagine that the D&D nerds I hung out with in school would respond in similarly inhumane and obviously immoral ways. Google is no place for nerds anymore, „preps“ took over?

ardit33 6y ago
Yup, post 2012, bunch of people saw ‘ the social network’ and decided tech is cool and makes money. Before that, most engineers were in the nerdy side. As the pool has increased, the talent has diluted as well
- JesseMReeves 6y ago
  I see.. I do remember literally thinking „that guy can‘t have grown up as a nerd“ when a documentary described one guy who introduced many of the exploitative and clearly dystopian „hooking“ patterns in social media. I’m still working in academia and am wondering how I can find the still-nerdy circles when I have to move to industry.
  - jonfromsf 6y ago
    Do you happen to remember what documentary/ what person was this?
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  I think the change set in before 2012 as well; it probably took off during the tech boom around the 2000's when the world got connected to the internet. Anyway, The Social Network is a pretty bad example because everyone in there already started from a privileged position, e.g. rich parents; Zuck's parents were a psychiatrist and a dentist, both at least 150K / year jobs. Harvard costs $50K a year for tuition, plus nearly $20K / year for housing.
jfengel 6y ago
I think tech has never been as open and welcoming as it has liked to believe. There was a lot of high-minded talk about the way technology removes barriers and makes differences invisible, but much of that came at a time when tech was almost exclusively the domain of white men. We didn't see racism, sexism, etc. because there weren't many black people, women, etc. to be subjected to it. The more that are present, the more opportunities arise for that previously latent trait to become visible. It's not everybody -- far from it -- but it's more than we thought or hoped. I suspect that your D&D group was mostly white and male, like mine. And if there were women in it, you might try asking them now about the things that they tolerated but didn't like: misogynist jokes, subjected to comments about their appearance, maybe even being assumed that they'd clean up. I don't intend that as an accusation. It's an admission: I'm certain that this went on in my group, and I'm pretty sure I was part of it. Not that it was intolerable; they would have left if it was that bad. But it's part of my overall suggestion that it's probably not as rosy as we remember it being. I point that out because I think the change was less about Google shifting from nerds to preps, but that the nerds are finding more opportunities to act like the preps. Not all of them, and not all the time, but enough to be a small but constant trickle.
- JesseMReeves 6y ago
  Let me try to extend on my comment a bit. I think going through the nerd experience when growing up does equip you with a certain moral compass that is quite useful in interactions such as the ones described in the article, but also for our digital age in particular. First, you are much more empathetic (especially towards ostracized people or those shunned for nerd interests) because you know what suffering feels like, and can relate to people who are suffering. Your alarm bells will ring when there are signs of irrational decisions driven by group think. Hackers are very aware of the meaning behind principles like „don’t shoot the messenger“. Second, your interests have shown you both utopian (Star Trek) and dystopian (1984, Blade Runner) outcomes of society, and you have discussed these possibilities in online forums or with your nerd circle (of all creatures) for nights. These patterns studied in depth are difficult to ignore and not speak up about when your company makes decisions that lead either way. I‘d hang out and nerd around about the latest fringe obsessions with the slightly overweight guy who behaves a bit clumsily around women due to insecurity (not because he is outright sexist), but is generally reflected and tries not to do harm at any time. I’ve got a strong aversion against the borderline bullying and cocky „tech bro“ who just wants money and the privilege to control anyone he wants (including girls), never daydreamed about tech utopias, and doesn’t consider the implications of his actions (on a personal or on a societal level) in the slightest. This is likely an unconscious pattern learned in the hard way when growing up. I can’t explain some things I’m seeing in tech by anything but that those who did not live through the nerd experience bullied their way into taking over control.

ardit33 6y ago

Yup, post 2012, bunch of people saw ‘ the social network’ and decided tech is cool and makes money. Before that, most engineers were in the nerdy side. As the pool has increased, the talent has diluted as well

JesseMReeves 6y ago
I see.. I do remember literally thinking „that guy can‘t have grown up as a nerd“ when a documentary described one guy who introduced many of the exploitative and clearly dystopian „hooking“ patterns in social media. I’m still working in academia and am wondering how I can find the still-nerdy circles when I have to move to industry.
- jonfromsf 6y ago
  Do you happen to remember what documentary/ what person was this?
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
I think the change set in before 2012 as well; it probably took off during the tech boom around the 2000's when the world got connected to the internet. Anyway, The Social Network is a pretty bad example because everyone in there already started from a privileged position, e.g. rich parents; Zuck's parents were a psychiatrist and a dentist, both at least 150K / year jobs. Harvard costs $50K a year for tuition, plus nearly $20K / year for housing.

jfengel 6y ago

I think tech has never been as open and welcoming as it has liked to believe. There was a lot of high-minded talk about the way technology removes barriers and makes differences invisible, but much of that came at a time when tech was almost exclusively the domain of white men. We didn't see racism, sexism, etc. because there weren't many black people, women, etc. to be subjected to it. The more that are present, the more opportunities arise for that previously latent trait to become visible. It's not everybody -- far from it -- but it's more than we thought or hoped. I suspect that your D&D group was mostly white and male, like mine. And if there were women in it, you might try asking them now about the things that they tolerated but didn't like: misogynist jokes, subjected to comments about their appearance, maybe even being assumed that they'd clean up. I don't intend that as an accusation. It's an admission: I'm certain that this went on in my group, and I'm pretty sure I was part of it. Not that it was intolerable; they would have left if it was that bad. But it's part of my overall suggestion that it's probably not as rosy as we remember it being. I point that out because I think the change was less about Google shifting from nerds to preps, but that the nerds are finding more opportunities to act like the preps. Not all of them, and not all the time, but enough to be a small but constant trickle.

JesseMReeves 6y ago
Let me try to extend on my comment a bit. I think going through the nerd experience when growing up does equip you with a certain moral compass that is quite useful in interactions such as the ones described in the article, but also for our digital age in particular. First, you are much more empathetic (especially towards ostracized people or those shunned for nerd interests) because you know what suffering feels like, and can relate to people who are suffering. Your alarm bells will ring when there are signs of irrational decisions driven by group think. Hackers are very aware of the meaning behind principles like „don’t shoot the messenger“. Second, your interests have shown you both utopian (Star Trek) and dystopian (1984, Blade Runner) outcomes of society, and you have discussed these possibilities in online forums or with your nerd circle (of all creatures) for nights. These patterns studied in depth are difficult to ignore and not speak up about when your company makes decisions that lead either way. I‘d hang out and nerd around about the latest fringe obsessions with the slightly overweight guy who behaves a bit clumsily around women due to insecurity (not because he is outright sexist), but is generally reflected and tries not to do harm at any time. I’ve got a strong aversion against the borderline bullying and cocky „tech bro“ who just wants money and the privilege to control anyone he wants (including girls), never daydreamed about tech utopias, and doesn’t consider the implications of his actions (on a personal or on a societal level) in the slightest. This is likely an unconscious pattern learned in the hard way when growing up. I can’t explain some things I’m seeing in tech by anything but that those who did not live through the nerd experience bullied their way into taking over control.