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> I agree with Google here that you should assume good intent That’s probably because you can afford to. Imagine you’re someone who had to file a grave compla

> I agree with Google here that you should assume good intent That’s probably because you can afford to. Imagine you’re someone who had to file a grave complaint but the person got off the hook because “it was a one time thing, it’s his first offense”. It’s important to document all microagression if you really want something to happen out of these complaints. The accuser maybe felt the perp would likely be a repeating offender and is not open to feedback, so the effort to pile up complaints got initiated. This is how it’s done. I’d be happy to work with this person.

ALittleLight 6y ago
No, it's not important to document all "microagressions". It sounds like it would be a nightmare to work with any person who thought or acted like that. The concept of microagressions is backwards and pernicious. People are imperfect communicators. Getting offended at cryptic, imagined, or unintended slights is something that children and crazy people do. Adults, especially in the workplace, should be able to understand people have different ways of expressing themselves and that's not bad and you don't need to get HR involved. One example comes to mind - I had a coworker who frequently wrote "..." After messages on our instant messenger. Once I asked him a question and he just replied "..." And then 20 minutes later told me the answer. I read this as kind of a sarcastic thing, like an exasperated sigh that he'd have to explain something so obvious. I thought this guy was a real jerk. One day after he sent me a "..." I asked him what it meant. I said "What does '...' signify?" And the guy answered that it meant "More to follow" and I realized that he wasn't being a jerk, he was just trying to signal to me that he couldn't complete the answer at the moment, but would send more to follow. The point of my little story is that it just doesn't make sense to assume hostile motives. Lots of times people just communicate differently. Trying to document all the times you can interpret someone as being negative is just a bad idea in addition to being unfair and unproductive. It's also way more likely to make people genuinely aggressive and hostile towards you.
- villasv 6y ago
  You definition of microagression isn’t usual or useful. That’s why the rest of the argument made sense, but missed the point.
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    Google defines microagression as - "a statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority" That is consistent with the definition I had in mind when I wrote my comment. I do think trying to document unintended offenses is a bad idea. The recipient of the microagression should instead learn not to dwell on minor slights, ignore them, and/or assume good intent instead. It seems very toxic to live as if the people you talk to are secretly hurting you. Better to think of them as nice people with different methods of communication until they prove otherwise.
    - villasv 6y ago
      As you can see in that definition, intent is irrelevant. Assuming good intent doesn’t change the fact it is regarded as an instance of discrimination. Might be unintentional, but it still is what is is. You keep saying “imaginary”, but microagression is about what has been said, not relevant to dwell on what the person might have wanted to mean. You keep coming back to this perceived paranoia: “as if people are secretly trying to hurt you”. This is not what this is about. This is people that got hurt, and no matter what others are trying, secretly or not, that hurt is better be documented. It doesn’t mean that someone ought to be punished right away for each comment deemed offensive by anyone. It’s just that these occurrences might be relevant later on and if they’re not documented, it’s gone. Documenting all offenses is a good idea for people who are at risk of finding themselves needing that later. And if you don’t think this happens frequently enough, you haven’t been paying attention.
      - lordloki 6y ago
        It sounds to me like people get hurt by microagressions because they have been taught that microagressions exist in the first place. That is once you have been convinced that microaggressions are a problem you will find them everywhere, since they are primarily a matter of interpretation. The entire concept then creates a negative environment where everyone feels they need to walk on eggshells all the time. This is more unhealthy to society and groups, than the microaggressions. It creates distrust, where assuming the best fosters trust. I see the entire concept of "microaggressions" as a downward spiral.
- randomcarbloke 6y ago
  We already have politesse, "microagressions" is either misperception of impolitesse or a means to reframe perceived slights as far more malicious than they usually are.
- itronitron 6y ago
  Also, I hope people realize that as a workplace becomes more diverse the probability increases that one person will be offended by another person's casual turn of phrase. For example, the phrase 'went south' which means that something went badly might be deeply offensive to someone from the South.
ycombinete 6y ago
Yet you’ve assumed so much good intent on behalf of the accuser; and bad intent on side of the accused.
- villasv 6y ago
  I assumed nothing, I'm pointing out that there are plausible situations that justify the behavior condemned by parent comment. I'm not passing judgement on this particular instance being reported.
zo1 6y ago
This individual that made the complaint sounds like a bully and very toxic to any group/team they are a part of (no matter how genuine or well-meaning they sound or feel personally). Personally, I would find it very uncomfortable to work with them and I would not feel safe around them. Likewise I would worry about my coworkers being around them at the same time, especially those that aren't well-suited to deal with individuals such as this. I mean look at how far this thing has escalated. Does that seem like healthy group behavior to you?
- villasv 6y ago
  Things have escalated because HR handled the matter badly. The behavior of creating documentation has nothing wrong with it, counting on it to be properly addressed.
  - zo1 6y ago
    So how could they have handled it better?
shark_laser 6y ago
Can't help but think parent article and this perspective are related to this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/black-unemployment-rate-rises-despite-143209839.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/black-unemployment-rate-rises...

ALittleLight 6y ago

No, it's not important to document all "microagressions". It sounds like it would be a nightmare to work with any person who thought or acted like that. The concept of microagressions is backwards and pernicious. People are imperfect communicators. Getting offended at cryptic, imagined, or unintended slights is something that children and crazy people do. Adults, especially in the workplace, should be able to understand people have different ways of expressing themselves and that's not bad and you don't need to get HR involved. One example comes to mind - I had a coworker who frequently wrote "..." After messages on our instant messenger. Once I asked him a question and he just replied "..." And then 20 minutes later told me the answer. I read this as kind of a sarcastic thing, like an exasperated sigh that he'd have to explain something so obvious. I thought this guy was a real jerk. One day after he sent me a "..." I asked him what it meant. I said "What does '...' signify?" And the guy answered that it meant "More to follow" and I realized that he wasn't being a jerk, he was just trying to signal to me that he couldn't complete the answer at the moment, but would send more to follow. The point of my little story is that it just doesn't make sense to assume hostile motives. Lots of times people just communicate differently. Trying to document all the times you can interpret someone as being negative is just a bad idea in addition to being unfair and unproductive. It's also way more likely to make people genuinely aggressive and hostile towards you.

villasv 6y ago
You definition of microagression isn’t usual or useful. That’s why the rest of the argument made sense, but missed the point.
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  Google defines microagression as - "a statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority" That is consistent with the definition I had in mind when I wrote my comment. I do think trying to document unintended offenses is a bad idea. The recipient of the microagression should instead learn not to dwell on minor slights, ignore them, and/or assume good intent instead. It seems very toxic to live as if the people you talk to are secretly hurting you. Better to think of them as nice people with different methods of communication until they prove otherwise.
  - villasv 6y ago
    As you can see in that definition, intent is irrelevant. Assuming good intent doesn’t change the fact it is regarded as an instance of discrimination. Might be unintentional, but it still is what is is. You keep saying “imaginary”, but microagression is about what has been said, not relevant to dwell on what the person might have wanted to mean. You keep coming back to this perceived paranoia: “as if people are secretly trying to hurt you”. This is not what this is about. This is people that got hurt, and no matter what others are trying, secretly or not, that hurt is better be documented. It doesn’t mean that someone ought to be punished right away for each comment deemed offensive by anyone. It’s just that these occurrences might be relevant later on and if they’re not documented, it’s gone. Documenting all offenses is a good idea for people who are at risk of finding themselves needing that later. And if you don’t think this happens frequently enough, you haven’t been paying attention.
    - lordloki 6y ago
      It sounds to me like people get hurt by microagressions because they have been taught that microagressions exist in the first place. That is once you have been convinced that microaggressions are a problem you will find them everywhere, since they are primarily a matter of interpretation. The entire concept then creates a negative environment where everyone feels they need to walk on eggshells all the time. This is more unhealthy to society and groups, than the microaggressions. It creates distrust, where assuming the best fosters trust. I see the entire concept of "microaggressions" as a downward spiral.
randomcarbloke 6y ago
We already have politesse, "microagressions" is either misperception of impolitesse or a means to reframe perceived slights as far more malicious than they usually are.
itronitron 6y ago
Also, I hope people realize that as a workplace becomes more diverse the probability increases that one person will be offended by another person's casual turn of phrase. For example, the phrase 'went south' which means that something went badly might be deeply offensive to someone from the South.

ycombinete 6y ago

Yet you’ve assumed so much good intent on behalf of the accuser; and bad intent on side of the accused.

villasv 6y ago
I assumed nothing, I'm pointing out that there are plausible situations that justify the behavior condemned by parent comment. I'm not passing judgement on this particular instance being reported.

zo1 6y ago

This individual that made the complaint sounds like a bully and very toxic to any group/team they are a part of (no matter how genuine or well-meaning they sound or feel personally). Personally, I would find it very uncomfortable to work with them and I would not feel safe around them. Likewise I would worry about my coworkers being around them at the same time, especially those that aren't well-suited to deal with individuals such as this. I mean look at how far this thing has escalated. Does that seem like healthy group behavior to you?

villasv 6y ago
Things have escalated because HR handled the matter badly. The behavior of creating documentation has nothing wrong with it, counting on it to be properly addressed.
- zo1 6y ago
  So how could they have handled it better?

shark_laser 6y ago

Can't help but think parent article and this perspective are related to this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/black-unemployment-rate-rises-despite-143209839.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/black-unemployment-rate-rises...