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> the Dutch cabinet offered it's resignation peacefully to atone for a scandal it wasn't even directly responsible for I don't think that's true. Mark Rutte w

by mcv 6y ago

> the Dutch cabinet offered it's resignation peacefully to atone for a scandal it wasn't even directly responsible for I don't think that's true. Mark Rutte was prime minister during the escalation of the excessive fraud hunting, and has been directly involved with parts of it. He undeniably carries much of the real responsibility. He's also not a great example of a politician taking that responsibility; he has a tendency to smile problems away. That said, you're absolutely right that neither the Dutch not any other European country is anywhere near as corrupt as the US, where corruption seems to be baked deep into its political system.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
> I don't think that's true. Mark Rutte was prime minister during the escalation of the excessive fraud hunting, and has been directly involved with parts of it. He undeniably carries much of the real responsibility. What has the direct involvement been then beyond simply being the ultimate executive at the top of the chain of command? > He's also not a great example of a politician taking that responsibility; he has a tendency to smile problems away. Offering the resignation of one's cabinet is quite far from a mere smile. > That said, you're absolutely right that neither the Dutch not any other European country is anywhere near as corrupt as the US, where corruption seems to be baked deep into its political system. Any other? I daresay that there is greater corruption in many European nations.
rapsey 6y ago
> That said, you're absolutely right that neither the Dutch not any other European country is anywhere near as corrupt as the US, where corruption seems to be baked deep into its political system. It's not baked, it is rotten. It started with noble intentions and designs. European countries reformed mostly in the 20th century to become what they are. US has continued it's system since the funding of the republic and the rot has set in deep until now.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  I do not believe the U.S.A.'s founding to be as noble as is commonly narrated. The so celebrated “founding fathers” were rich, white, male slaveowners that tried their hardest to keep as much power for the rich, white, male, and slaveowner at the expense of all others and transparently founded an elitocracy that favored the big man over the little man, and certainly succeeded. That the U.S.A. electoral system gives disproportionate power to the elite already in power is not a fluke, but a deliberate design choice.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Compared to the absolute monarchy they rebelled against, it certainly did have some nobility. But I wonder if they were aware that their words pointed a lot further than they themselves were going. The big irony of the founding of the US is that the guy who believed it was "self-evident that all men are created equal", owned men as slaves. It's important to continue in the direction they pointed, and not stop simply at the point where they ended up in their time.

by mcv 6y ago

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

> I don't think that's true. Mark Rutte was prime minister during the escalation of the excessive fraud hunting, and has been directly involved with parts of it. He undeniably carries much of the real responsibility. What has the direct involvement been then beyond simply being the ultimate executive at the top of the chain of command? > He's also not a great example of a politician taking that responsibility; he has a tendency to smile problems away. Offering the resignation of one's cabinet is quite far from a mere smile. > That said, you're absolutely right that neither the Dutch not any other European country is anywhere near as corrupt as the US, where corruption seems to be baked deep into its political system. Any other? I daresay that there is greater corruption in many European nations.

rapsey 6y ago

> That said, you're absolutely right that neither the Dutch not any other European country is anywhere near as corrupt as the US, where corruption seems to be baked deep into its political system. It's not baked, it is rotten. It started with noble intentions and designs. European countries reformed mostly in the 20th century to become what they are. US has continued it's system since the funding of the republic and the rot has set in deep until now.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
I do not believe the U.S.A.'s founding to be as noble as is commonly narrated. The so celebrated “founding fathers” were rich, white, male slaveowners that tried their hardest to keep as much power for the rich, white, male, and slaveowner at the expense of all others and transparently founded an elitocracy that favored the big man over the little man, and certainly succeeded. That the U.S.A. electoral system gives disproportionate power to the elite already in power is not a fluke, but a deliberate design choice.
- mcv 6y ago
  Compared to the absolute monarchy they rebelled against, it certainly did have some nobility. But I wonder if they were aware that their words pointed a lot further than they themselves were going. The big irony of the founding of the US is that the guy who believed it was "self-evident that all men are created equal", owned men as slaves. It's important to continue in the direction they pointed, and not stop simply at the point where they ended up in their time.