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Technical Co-founders Are Overrated

137 points by mode80 15y ago

diego 15y ago
Good post, but I would change the title. It's not about technical co-founders being overrated. It's about how it's a good idea to make yourself technical enough if you are a business person who wants to start a company based on a web application.
- mcs 15y ago
  I agree. A technical co-founder with no business sense would likely be inclined to disagree with business decisions made by the CEO, thus causing friction internally and hindering productivity.
  - Shenglong 15y ago
    Wouldn't you think, a business co-founder with a technical co-founder would mainly stick to their strengths?
    - jarin 15y ago
      In my own experience, if the trust is there that's exactly what happens. When there are disagreements, both parties can at least start with the assumption that the other person probably knows what they're talking about.
      - Shenglong 15y ago
        On an old project of mine, my friend said to me "I don't know why you think that'll work, and I don't agree at all... but somehow you seem to always be right about these things" I guess it's pretty silly to start a big project with people you don't trust though.
  - krobertson 15y ago
    At the same time, a co-founder with a business sense and no sense will likely make bad business decisions that have technical impacts. Do they understand the true cost of a highly available environment? Do they understand why feature development takes so long? Even people with a limited technical background make those. In fact, they're probably worse, because they think they understand something but really don't. Have two founders from different backgrounds, with a small understanding of the other is good. But the key is to understand their own knowledge boundaries and let the other take over where it matters. They need be able to play devils advocate to each other just enough to come up with the right solution.
  - ojbyrne 15y ago
    I tend to think of "business sense" as basically being equivalent to "conventional wisdom," and then think of the long list of very successful businesses that have been started by people with no business sense. And the long list of "business" people who dismissed them. I vote for "causing friction internally and hindering productivity."
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- cliftonmckinney 15y ago
  Completely agree. My story is almost exactly the same. Learning enough to speak the language is hugely important and it's one of the reasons, I believe anyway, that my cofounder and I have such a great relationship. I'm mostly hustle--worrying about marketing and having the right relationships, but I can code a mockup in fairly short order when it's needed. I might consider re-naming it "if you're not a technical cofounder then learn to speak the language."
  - BrainScraps 15y ago
    Not the snappiest title, probably wouldn't make it to top of HN. But definitely more realistic. C'est la vie.
    - willaku 15y ago
      I agree on the name comment. Funny thing is that I didn't post this on Hacker News, someone else did. I guess the name did get some attention. -Will
- willaku 15y ago
  Diego - I admit the title was a bit inflammatory. The theme, as you note, is that business people don't need a technical person to get proof of life. Also, don't treat technical people like shite. -Will
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    Eh, I'm technical and didn't need a business cofounder, I learnt to run the business myself and do all the things a business person would do. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have a very good business cofounder. They'd be better at it than I am and they'd make me happier because I wouldn't have to do the things I don't like as much.
  - Ixiaus 15y ago
    Eh, more than a bit. The epithet you chose echo the exact words I hear from many white collar execs trying to turn "social networking for baby boomers" into some sort of cash cow, believing that licensing a 200k per year social networking software and getting millions in capital is The Right Way. I understand your article wasn't actually about that and it was more about the self-empowerment you found through doing it yourself. I'm in full support of self-empowerment - but I will say this: technical cofounders are strictly not overrated. As has been suggested many times in this comment thread, a balance between a good business cofounder and a good technical cofounder is a great way to do it. A one-man technical founder can get along without a business person or even outsourcing to a business consultant; a one-man business founder cannot get along without a technical person or without outsourcing to a technical contractor/consultant. Additionally, I applaud your self-driven effort, but it is a common mistake to think you can take over the world after 6 months to even 4 years of self-taught programming experience. As a business person, you did well by learning just enough to build a prototype, from there, you should be able to attract a technical cofounder that has the skill and talent you are ultimately going to need in the long run and probably don't have the time or desire to pick up on your own.
    - willaku 15y ago
      I have no illusions of being able to be the technical side of this business. I was just trying to move things along, learn something (which was fun), and find a partner. A great technical partner and good compatibility interpersonally is key to the opportunity to having success. I (now we) haven't done shite yet, but at least now have the beginnings of a team. -Will
navyrain 15y ago
I'd go so far as to add that the business guy having a modest amount of technical chops will make getting that technical guy easier, make getting funding easier, and make the creation of the product easier. This is the Right approach.
- twog 15y ago
  I agree with this. You dont need to be a software developer, but enough knowledge of a programming language(s) will make raising funding and finding partners easier. I think the biggest roadblocks occur because a non-technical founder doest have the knowledge to properly hypothesize and test his business to practice theories.
ehutch79 15y ago
I think the reason people crap on business ops co-founders, is because most of the time they don't want to be co-founders. Unlike the author of the articles, you see a lot of mba types who don't respect what coders do. So in the end, they don't want to give their 'technical co-founder' equity or sometimes even a fair wage. That's assuming we're even beyond the business dood's idea being making a 'facebook killer'
- willaku 15y ago
  Its too bad this divide between technical and business folks exists. That's mainly what bugged me about the process and why I wrote about it. In the end I think it comes down to the personality or more importantly how personable the business or technical person are. -Will
  - FrojoS 15y ago
    So I have a question here. What makes you 'a buisnes guy'? Your skills or that you majored in buisnes [1]? Or to ask in another way, would you have missed something if you had majored in engineering? Anyway, great blog post. Loved it! [1] My assumption!
    - willaku 15y ago
      Great question, and I'm figuring this out as I go along. I majored in German and was a consultant for 12 years. Though I learned some coding skills I know that I can never be the technical person, unless we had a much longer time to build the product. An option that doesn't work financially and given the pace of things on the web.
      - ehutch79 15y ago
        I think the fact that you took the time to learn how to code sets you a field apart from other potential co-founders. The situation is kind of a mirror of the whole designers that refuse to learn how to code thing. If you look, even if they don't do it, the designers who at least learn how html and css work turn out work that is leaps and bounds better web design. Likewise, business type people who learn how the technology they're building their business on, run companies that are leaps and bounds more efficient and potentially leaps and bounds more profitable. (not to mention that much better to work with)
ares2012 15y ago
I think the article is best summarized as "Don't let the lack of a co-founder hold you back". No matter what your expertise, the farther you get with your idea on your own the more likely someone will join you. I do think the idea of "learning to code" to start something is pretty silly, just like the idea of "learning to sell" is pretty silly. Yes, you can learn them while starting a company but the process will be painful. Get advisors, mentors and possibly job experience in areas where you are weak instead of burning your precious start-up time on learning something new.
- jarin 15y ago
  I don't know if I would consider learning how to code a waste of time, as it's highly empowering to be able to just take a weekend and bust out a prototype of some random idea whenever you want, without bothering your developers who are likely hard at work on more important, mission-critical problems. Not to mention it gives you a better understanding of the foundations of your company and might even get you some bonus points from your technical team (as long as you don't start messing around with their code).
- willaku 15y ago
  The code I wrote wasn't going to production without some serious review, I know my limitations. But it did help in the search and also get things started for the business. -Will
scottkrager 15y ago
The video for his startup is awesome: http://flexmint.com/ http://flexmint.com/ Although, I wonder if Mint might have some issues with the domain/name.
- FrojoS 15y ago
  Agreed. Awesome video. Was that made before the prototype?
jonnathanson 15y ago
This is a great, concise story. To me, the most valuable insight in this article isn't that a non-tech founder needs to get super-technical. Rather, it's that he needs to demonstrate a willingness to do everything he possibly can. That is the secret sauce. It's not about being able to talk shot for shot with a super-techy coder. It's about not being the kind of person who throws his hands up in the air and sets limits to what he can or can't do, or will or won't do. Being a successful entrepreneur means doing anything and everything it takes to get to success. And it's a serious red flag when the co-founder, from the get-go, is already broadcasting that he's setting limits for himself (such as not even attempting a prototype). So big kudos to you for posting this. This is awesome and inspiring.
- palish 15y ago
  "Being a successful entrepreneur means doing anything and everything it takes to get to success." I think the world would be a healthier place if we didn't place so much ... emphasis ... on the idea of "do whatever it takes to succeed". Just look at what Airbnb did to succeed, for example.
  - jonnathanson 15y ago
    Apologies. I have been known to go hog-wild on the italics. It's an addiction I am trying to break. Some people have their exclamation marks. Others have their emoticons. I have my trigger-happy asterisks.
    - palish 15y ago
      Er... I didn't mean to make it sound like I was making fun of you. I wasn't, sorry. I'm truly serious: emphasis on "do whatever it takes to succeed" results in people doing illegal and immoral things to succeed, such as what Airbnb did.
      - BrainScraps 15y ago
        I think that's an over-simplification. Call me naive, but I think that to most people, "do whatever it takes to succeed" assumes a certain baseline of ethics in the intended audience. This phrase here is meant to spur the reader to do the right sorts of "anything": being disciplined, getting out of their comfort zone, learning, taking risks, getting their "hands dirty" in good honest work, hacking and building. The author cannot be blamed for those who act immorally because they lack ethical training or discipline.
zhoutong 15y ago
I agree with most part of this post. However, I think this article gave us an idea that a business co-founder who neither knows technology nor has the determination to learn technology can't succeed easily in today's context. I don't think it's about overrating or underrating, it's just that technical co-founders don't want to work with people who haven't even tried to pick up the technologies. No one can say which one is more important, technology or business, because both of them are important. Therefore, saying that technical co-founders are overrated is a bit irrelevant. We can also say that business co-founders are overrated because technical co-founders can pick up the business skills as well? The world needs both aspect of skills. No matter they are overrated or underrated, both kinds of co-founders need to know at least basic understanding and sense about each other's.
fragsworth 15y ago
Most technical mistakes that a non-technical founder can make will involve one of two things: Scalability, and maintainability Lacking knowledge in these two things will not hinder an early startup website much, so it's easy to go ahead and build something without expertise in these domains. The only thing that sucks about these situations is that once your company takes off, the engineers you hire will be left to maintain/fix the mess that the non-technical founder made - which can be quite miserable for the engineers.
- FrojoS 15y ago
  Or rebuild it in the background with a second 'team'. I know that people warn about rebuilding your product in the early stage. But in such a case, why not start from scratch one more time? Seems reasonable, if there is a user demand already and the first version didn't take very long.
michaelpinto 15y ago
If you're looking for a "code monkey" that isn't a technical co-founder. In fact I'd say if you're even looking a CTO with shares that still isn't a technical co-founder. To me a technical co-founder is someone with vision as much as hands on; the first person that comes to my mind is The Woz — or Ub Iwerks for Disney. Someone like that teamed with an evil genius biz person or creative director can conquer the world.
eekfuh 15y ago
As a technical co-founder myself, I first read the title and thought "Oh, cute... look at them trying so hard!" but then I read the article and it has some good valuable information,. Sidenote: I should share this to everyone who tries to get me to join their "$1b idea" companies and the ones willing enough to follow that article might actually get somewhere.
gigantor 15y ago
The title is a bit misleading, but I constantly beg for non-technical colleagues to have any sort of application modelling skills. MS Paint Web Mockups, Excel, PDF Forms that save to an email 'database', anything that gives a clear picture of how things work. Huge bonus if the mockup actually functions. You don't need to invest in time learning Ruby or .net since the end result is communication. Actual execution is where the technical cofounder comes into play.
krisrak 15y ago
Good post, I hope all the non-technical / idea guys read this and learn coding, much better than pissing-off technical guys by saying the usual "I have a great idea, it only needs coding, if u sign NDA, we can get this started"
localhost3000 15y ago
Good post. The fact of the matter is that, these days, learning to code well enough to make a web site/app is not hard, it just takes time and determination. I've gone through a similar process - my motto has been "learn as much useful stuff as possible" e.g. Rails, Ajax, jquery, image editing, design principles, wireframes, mockups, git, sass, haml, mobile frameworks... Have a good idea AND be useful from day 1. That should be the goal. It's what I'm working toward, anyways.
astrofinch 15y ago
Despite the title, this guy does seem to assume he needs an experienced technologist as a cofounder. Can someone explain what the value a really experienced technologist adds is? (Additionally, can that value be provided by a first employee rather than a cofounder?) (Context: I'm a journeyman-level technologist, trying to figure out where the point of diminishing returns for becoming a better one is.)
- biot 15y ago
  It's possible to build a very slick-looking prototype that uses Microsoft Access as its datastore. While the Access UI is arguably easier for a businessperson to mock up databases with, it's unlikely to survive beyond a handful of simultaneous users. A competent tech founder will inherently understand issues of scalability, security, data structures, and so on. By applying this knowledge, you can iterate faster and not have to stop for a costly rewrite because the site was crushed by moderate traffic, leaks private data, was hacked, etc. Given that you're going to want to get the technology right before you launch, it's generally the role of a founder to tackle these issues. The title "founder" implies a certain level of equity participation beyond that of an employee, but it's all arbitrary anyways.
- BrandonM 15y ago
  > Can someone explain what the value a really experienced technologist adds is? (Additionally, can that value be provided by a first employee rather than a cofounder?) I'll take a shot at this. There is a large gap between "good enough to get the job done" and "stable, maintainable, and secure." It's important to get the kind of technical person who has a solid grasp of the proper way to develop software. A cofounder will care a lot more about building a lasting, maintainable business than random programmers will. Someone has to take pride in the codebase and take responsibility for auditing others' work as well, and it's hard for me to see a non-cofounder really caring enough. A technical cofounder will be much more invested in the enterprise when things get tough, and in a startup they will! Something will break, someone will attack the site, traffic will peak unexpectedly, and as a founder you will want to know that you have someone who is capable and willing to handle those issues when they come up. A contracted programmer certainly will not fix issues like that cheaply, and even an employee is likely to seek other options after a few such incidents. If you want to build a thriving, lasting company while minimizing difficulties, there is no substitute for a good technical cofounder. Edit: While writing my comment, biot explained my first point in a more concrete way.
richcollins 15y ago
After a few months I had a prototype and it actually worked. The application screen-scraped data, stored it in a database, presented it to the user, and then submitted data to an external system. Much better decision than hiring someone that could do it in a day.
- irahul 15y ago
  Not sure if you are being sarcastic, so I am taking it as you were serious. There are arguments both for and against taking a few months to do it yourself when someone could have done it in day. He invested his few months and now he has the credibility and experience to implement the prototype himself, talk to technical founders, manage contractors and see through bullshit. On the other hand, if this was all his prototype was, he could have paid someone hourly rate to build it and then launched early and improvised. He could still have learned on his own time - he would have saved a lot of it by trading it for some money.
  - billforsternz 15y ago
    Pretty sure he was being sarcastic actually.
  - jleader 15y ago
    It also depends whether that "few months" was solely spent learning the technology, or whether it was also spent iterating on the concept. It could be that if he'd hired someone, he'd get a prototype of his initial concept in a day, but then have a harder time iterating because he didn't really understand how the prototype worked.
  - Shorel 15y ago
    He paid with his own time, for something much better than simply the software: He is no longer in the path of becoming a PHB.
arunbahl 15y ago
Great post. I want to call attention to Will's first comment from Josh Strike, who articulated what I'm thinking pretty well. (Doesn't seem like I can link to it, so I'm pasting - and truncating, so I encourage you to read his full comment): Most coders are autodidacts. The ones without a DIY ethos drop out pretty quickly. Frankly, the reason the tech side feels free to give the business side a lot of crap -- other than the fact that you guys make more than we do, in mysterious ways unimaginable to us -- is that the business heads tend to lack that DIY drive to figure it out for themselves. Basically, wasting our time with things they could google, or learn to do, if they were as diligent as we are being (and we, being paid less to do more, feel a right to gripe). But you don't sound like that; actually, you sound like you took the hacker mentality and applied it to business, which is what we'd all like to do. SO, bravo. The fact that you did that is great. Don't rest on your laurels (or your co-founder); keep improving yourself. [...] The most important thing to remember if you're going to delegate -- whether it's hammering nails, making pizza dough or writing code -- is that the guy with his hands in the pie has the power to demolish you if you don't understand what he's doing. And lives by the sweat of his balls. So buy him a beer...and never consider anything to be magic. If you do, you've just put yourself in the dangerous position of not being able to fix it when it breaks down.
pdenya 15y ago
Link bait much? Story ends with him getting a technical co-founder.
freshfunk 15y ago
In any startup, founders have to play more than one role. Ergo having a strict business person and strict coder isn't great. What's better is if you have: - A product person who's done product management, product marketing, user experience and design. Ideally they have a CS background and can understand technology. - A technical person who's a generalist and can code things up from front to back. They should also have some sense of front-end design as well as product. BOTH needs to have some business sense. By having product/technical overlap, they can work together to create an elegant solution both in the product sense as well as the technical sense. By both having business sense, they can create a product that fits a business. A business person with no sense of product is not a cofounder because they can't scope anything out. Just having ideas and describing a solution by mouth or pointing at another website and saying "do this" is not cofounder material. A coder who needs to be told exactly what to do for anything and has no feedback or insight on the product/business is also not a cofounder. These aren't hard and fast rules but is my conclusion based on my entrepreneur experiences. Great product/business people are more than just ideas. Great technical people are more than just "coders."
dorian-graph 15y ago
For my exam revision (university) I've been reading about the history of computing. In general what happened with many (Pascal, Leibniz, Schickard, etc.) is that they had an idea yet the current state of technology and skilled workers was not adequate. So, many of them learnt how to do build their ideas themselves. They learnt the necessary skills. From the textbook: ".. he designed his first machine and contracted some local workmen for the construction work. An unworkable instrument was duly delivered. As many were to find after him, having a good idea was not enough, one also had to master the arts of tool making and engineering."
MatthewB 15y ago
This is amazing and exactly what I am doing. I kept thinking I need a technical cofounder, and I still wouldn't mind having one, but that doesn't mean I can't become a technical cofounder myself. I took the same route. I picked up a ruby on rails book and just started building. I have experience with C++ and Java, but I haven't done any major coding in a couple years. I'm now building out my idea and it feels great not to have to depend on someone else to drive development.
capdiz 15y ago
Before you learn or when your contemplating to learn how to program its best you don't tackle programming as a whole. Get the basics first then start work on an idea you might have. Its suprising how solutions will stream in fast because you have a well defined problem in your mind no matter whether the idea is a desktop or web app. The best way to learn is to work on a real problem a few days after getting the basics. The hardest part isn't getting the answers but defining the problem at hand clearly.
johnx123 15y ago
Summary of this thread: PG and YC screwed everyone's conscience--that doing "anything" to get success is legal:-(
liquidcool 15y ago
I have a friend that has done pretty much the same thing, although he hasn't found a tech cofounder yet. My recommendation to the business types is to spec it out. Even if coding is beyond you, using something like Balsamiq to create a prototype that you can workshop, usability test, gauge interest in, etc. is a big help. Even if you can't convince a techie to join you, they'll be more likely to help point out the parts that will be easy or hard to implement, which can help define your MVP and estimate startup costs if you decide to outsource it.

137 points by mode80 15y ago

diego 15y ago

Good post, but I would change the title. It's not about technical co-founders being overrated. It's about how it's a good idea to make yourself technical enough if you are a business person who wants to start a company based on a web application.

mcs 15y ago
I agree. A technical co-founder with no business sense would likely be inclined to disagree with business decisions made by the CEO, thus causing friction internally and hindering productivity.
- Shenglong 15y ago
  Wouldn't you think, a business co-founder with a technical co-founder would mainly stick to their strengths?
  - jarin 15y ago
    In my own experience, if the trust is there that's exactly what happens. When there are disagreements, both parties can at least start with the assumption that the other person probably knows what they're talking about.
    - Shenglong 15y ago
      On an old project of mine, my friend said to me "I don't know why you think that'll work, and I don't agree at all... but somehow you seem to always be right about these things" I guess it's pretty silly to start a big project with people you don't trust though.
- krobertson 15y ago
  At the same time, a co-founder with a business sense and no sense will likely make bad business decisions that have technical impacts. Do they understand the true cost of a highly available environment? Do they understand why feature development takes so long? Even people with a limited technical background make those. In fact, they're probably worse, because they think they understand something but really don't. Have two founders from different backgrounds, with a small understanding of the other is good. But the key is to understand their own knowledge boundaries and let the other take over where it matters. They need be able to play devils advocate to each other just enough to come up with the right solution.
- ojbyrne 15y ago
  I tend to think of "business sense" as basically being equivalent to "conventional wisdom," and then think of the long list of very successful businesses that have been started by people with no business sense. And the long list of "business" people who dismissed them. I vote for "causing friction internally and hindering productivity."
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
cliftonmckinney 15y ago
Completely agree. My story is almost exactly the same. Learning enough to speak the language is hugely important and it's one of the reasons, I believe anyway, that my cofounder and I have such a great relationship. I'm mostly hustle--worrying about marketing and having the right relationships, but I can code a mockup in fairly short order when it's needed. I might consider re-naming it "if you're not a technical cofounder then learn to speak the language."
- BrainScraps 15y ago
  Not the snappiest title, probably wouldn't make it to top of HN. But definitely more realistic. C'est la vie.
  - willaku 15y ago
    I agree on the name comment. Funny thing is that I didn't post this on Hacker News, someone else did. I guess the name did get some attention. -Will
willaku 15y ago
Diego - I admit the title was a bit inflammatory. The theme, as you note, is that business people don't need a technical person to get proof of life. Also, don't treat technical people like shite. -Will
- StavrosK 15y ago
  Eh, I'm technical and didn't need a business cofounder, I learnt to run the business myself and do all the things a business person would do. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have a very good business cofounder. They'd be better at it than I am and they'd make me happier because I wouldn't have to do the things I don't like as much.
- Ixiaus 15y ago
  Eh, more than a bit. The epithet you chose echo the exact words I hear from many white collar execs trying to turn "social networking for baby boomers" into some sort of cash cow, believing that licensing a 200k per year social networking software and getting millions in capital is The Right Way. I understand your article wasn't actually about that and it was more about the self-empowerment you found through doing it yourself. I'm in full support of self-empowerment - but I will say this: technical cofounders are strictly not overrated. As has been suggested many times in this comment thread, a balance between a good business cofounder and a good technical cofounder is a great way to do it. A one-man technical founder can get along without a business person or even outsourcing to a business consultant; a one-man business founder cannot get along without a technical person or without outsourcing to a technical contractor/consultant. Additionally, I applaud your self-driven effort, but it is a common mistake to think you can take over the world after 6 months to even 4 years of self-taught programming experience. As a business person, you did well by learning just enough to build a prototype, from there, you should be able to attract a technical cofounder that has the skill and talent you are ultimately going to need in the long run and probably don't have the time or desire to pick up on your own.
  - willaku 15y ago
    I have no illusions of being able to be the technical side of this business. I was just trying to move things along, learn something (which was fun), and find a partner. A great technical partner and good compatibility interpersonally is key to the opportunity to having success. I (now we) haven't done shite yet, but at least now have the beginnings of a team. -Will

navyrain 15y ago

I'd go so far as to add that the business guy having a modest amount of technical chops will make getting that technical guy easier, make getting funding easier, and make the creation of the product easier. This is the Right approach.

twog 15y ago
I agree with this. You dont need to be a software developer, but enough knowledge of a programming language(s) will make raising funding and finding partners easier. I think the biggest roadblocks occur because a non-technical founder doest have the knowledge to properly hypothesize and test his business to practice theories.

ehutch79 15y ago

I think the reason people crap on business ops co-founders, is because most of the time they don't want to be co-founders. Unlike the author of the articles, you see a lot of mba types who don't respect what coders do. So in the end, they don't want to give their 'technical co-founder' equity or sometimes even a fair wage. That's assuming we're even beyond the business dood's idea being making a 'facebook killer'

willaku 15y ago
Its too bad this divide between technical and business folks exists. That's mainly what bugged me about the process and why I wrote about it. In the end I think it comes down to the personality or more importantly how personable the business or technical person are. -Will
- FrojoS 15y ago
  So I have a question here. What makes you 'a buisnes guy'? Your skills or that you majored in buisnes [1]? Or to ask in another way, would you have missed something if you had majored in engineering? Anyway, great blog post. Loved it! [1] My assumption!
  - willaku 15y ago
    Great question, and I'm figuring this out as I go along. I majored in German and was a consultant for 12 years. Though I learned some coding skills I know that I can never be the technical person, unless we had a much longer time to build the product. An option that doesn't work financially and given the pace of things on the web.
    - ehutch79 15y ago
      I think the fact that you took the time to learn how to code sets you a field apart from other potential co-founders. The situation is kind of a mirror of the whole designers that refuse to learn how to code thing. If you look, even if they don't do it, the designers who at least learn how html and css work turn out work that is leaps and bounds better web design. Likewise, business type people who learn how the technology they're building their business on, run companies that are leaps and bounds more efficient and potentially leaps and bounds more profitable. (not to mention that much better to work with)

ares2012 15y ago

I think the article is best summarized as "Don't let the lack of a co-founder hold you back". No matter what your expertise, the farther you get with your idea on your own the more likely someone will join you. I do think the idea of "learning to code" to start something is pretty silly, just like the idea of "learning to sell" is pretty silly. Yes, you can learn them while starting a company but the process will be painful. Get advisors, mentors and possibly job experience in areas where you are weak instead of burning your precious start-up time on learning something new.

jarin 15y ago
I don't know if I would consider learning how to code a waste of time, as it's highly empowering to be able to just take a weekend and bust out a prototype of some random idea whenever you want, without bothering your developers who are likely hard at work on more important, mission-critical problems. Not to mention it gives you a better understanding of the foundations of your company and might even get you some bonus points from your technical team (as long as you don't start messing around with their code).
willaku 15y ago
The code I wrote wasn't going to production without some serious review, I know my limitations. But it did help in the search and also get things started for the business. -Will

scottkrager 15y ago

The video for his startup is awesome: http://flexmint.com/ http://flexmint.com/ Although, I wonder if Mint might have some issues with the domain/name.

FrojoS 15y ago
Agreed. Awesome video. Was that made before the prototype?

jonnathanson 15y ago

This is a great, concise story. To me, the most valuable insight in this article isn't that a non-tech founder needs to get super-technical. Rather, it's that he needs to demonstrate a willingness to do everything he possibly can. That is the secret sauce. It's not about being able to talk shot for shot with a super-techy coder. It's about not being the kind of person who throws his hands up in the air and sets limits to what he can or can't do, or will or won't do. Being a successful entrepreneur means doing anything and everything it takes to get to success. And it's a serious red flag when the co-founder, from the get-go, is already broadcasting that he's setting limits for himself (such as not even attempting a prototype). So big kudos to you for posting this. This is awesome and inspiring.

palish 15y ago
"Being a successful entrepreneur means doing anything and everything it takes to get to success." I think the world would be a healthier place if we didn't place so much ... emphasis ... on the idea of "do whatever it takes to succeed". Just look at what Airbnb did to succeed, for example.
- jonnathanson 15y ago
  Apologies. I have been known to go hog-wild on the italics. It's an addiction I am trying to break. Some people have their exclamation marks. Others have their emoticons. I have my trigger-happy asterisks.
  - palish 15y ago
    Er... I didn't mean to make it sound like I was making fun of you. I wasn't, sorry. I'm truly serious: emphasis on "do whatever it takes to succeed" results in people doing illegal and immoral things to succeed, such as what Airbnb did.
    - BrainScraps 15y ago
      I think that's an over-simplification. Call me naive, but I think that to most people, "do whatever it takes to succeed" assumes a certain baseline of ethics in the intended audience. This phrase here is meant to spur the reader to do the right sorts of "anything": being disciplined, getting out of their comfort zone, learning, taking risks, getting their "hands dirty" in good honest work, hacking and building. The author cannot be blamed for those who act immorally because they lack ethical training or discipline.

zhoutong 15y ago

I agree with most part of this post. However, I think this article gave us an idea that a business co-founder who neither knows technology nor has the determination to learn technology can't succeed easily in today's context. I don't think it's about overrating or underrating, it's just that technical co-founders don't want to work with people who haven't even tried to pick up the technologies. No one can say which one is more important, technology or business, because both of them are important. Therefore, saying that technical co-founders are overrated is a bit irrelevant. We can also say that business co-founders are overrated because technical co-founders can pick up the business skills as well? The world needs both aspect of skills. No matter they are overrated or underrated, both kinds of co-founders need to know at least basic understanding and sense about each other's.

fragsworth 15y ago

Most technical mistakes that a non-technical founder can make will involve one of two things: Scalability, and maintainability Lacking knowledge in these two things will not hinder an early startup website much, so it's easy to go ahead and build something without expertise in these domains. The only thing that sucks about these situations is that once your company takes off, the engineers you hire will be left to maintain/fix the mess that the non-technical founder made - which can be quite miserable for the engineers.

FrojoS 15y ago
Or rebuild it in the background with a second 'team'. I know that people warn about rebuilding your product in the early stage. But in such a case, why not start from scratch one more time? Seems reasonable, if there is a user demand already and the first version didn't take very long.

michaelpinto 15y ago

If you're looking for a "code monkey" that isn't a technical co-founder. In fact I'd say if you're even looking a CTO with shares that still isn't a technical co-founder. To me a technical co-founder is someone with vision as much as hands on; the first person that comes to my mind is The Woz — or Ub Iwerks for Disney. Someone like that teamed with an evil genius biz person or creative director can conquer the world.

eekfuh 15y ago

As a technical co-founder myself, I first read the title and thought "Oh, cute... look at them trying so hard!" but then I read the article and it has some good valuable information,. Sidenote: I should share this to everyone who tries to get me to join their "$1b idea" companies and the ones willing enough to follow that article might actually get somewhere.

gigantor 15y ago

The title is a bit misleading, but I constantly beg for non-technical colleagues to have any sort of application modelling skills. MS Paint Web Mockups, Excel, PDF Forms that save to an email 'database', anything that gives a clear picture of how things work. Huge bonus if the mockup actually functions. You don't need to invest in time learning Ruby or .net since the end result is communication. Actual execution is where the technical cofounder comes into play.

krisrak 15y ago

Good post, I hope all the non-technical / idea guys read this and learn coding, much better than pissing-off technical guys by saying the usual "I have a great idea, it only needs coding, if u sign NDA, we can get this started"

localhost3000 15y ago

Good post. The fact of the matter is that, these days, learning to code well enough to make a web site/app is not hard, it just takes time and determination. I've gone through a similar process - my motto has been "learn as much useful stuff as possible" e.g. Rails, Ajax, jquery, image editing, design principles, wireframes, mockups, git, sass, haml, mobile frameworks... Have a good idea AND be useful from day 1. That should be the goal. It's what I'm working toward, anyways.

astrofinch 15y ago

Despite the title, this guy does seem to assume he needs an experienced technologist as a cofounder. Can someone explain what the value a really experienced technologist adds is? (Additionally, can that value be provided by a first employee rather than a cofounder?) (Context: I'm a journeyman-level technologist, trying to figure out where the point of diminishing returns for becoming a better one is.)

biot 15y ago
It's possible to build a very slick-looking prototype that uses Microsoft Access as its datastore. While the Access UI is arguably easier for a businessperson to mock up databases with, it's unlikely to survive beyond a handful of simultaneous users. A competent tech founder will inherently understand issues of scalability, security, data structures, and so on. By applying this knowledge, you can iterate faster and not have to stop for a costly rewrite because the site was crushed by moderate traffic, leaks private data, was hacked, etc. Given that you're going to want to get the technology right before you launch, it's generally the role of a founder to tackle these issues. The title "founder" implies a certain level of equity participation beyond that of an employee, but it's all arbitrary anyways.
BrandonM 15y ago
> Can someone explain what the value a really experienced technologist adds is? (Additionally, can that value be provided by a first employee rather than a cofounder?) I'll take a shot at this. There is a large gap between "good enough to get the job done" and "stable, maintainable, and secure." It's important to get the kind of technical person who has a solid grasp of the proper way to develop software. A cofounder will care a lot more about building a lasting, maintainable business than random programmers will. Someone has to take pride in the codebase and take responsibility for auditing others' work as well, and it's hard for me to see a non-cofounder really caring enough. A technical cofounder will be much more invested in the enterprise when things get tough, and in a startup they will! Something will break, someone will attack the site, traffic will peak unexpectedly, and as a founder you will want to know that you have someone who is capable and willing to handle those issues when they come up. A contracted programmer certainly will not fix issues like that cheaply, and even an employee is likely to seek other options after a few such incidents. If you want to build a thriving, lasting company while minimizing difficulties, there is no substitute for a good technical cofounder. Edit: While writing my comment, biot explained my first point in a more concrete way.

richcollins 15y ago

After a few months I had a prototype and it actually worked. The application screen-scraped data, stored it in a database, presented it to the user, and then submitted data to an external system. Much better decision than hiring someone that could do it in a day.

irahul 15y ago
Not sure if you are being sarcastic, so I am taking it as you were serious. There are arguments both for and against taking a few months to do it yourself when someone could have done it in day. He invested his few months and now he has the credibility and experience to implement the prototype himself, talk to technical founders, manage contractors and see through bullshit. On the other hand, if this was all his prototype was, he could have paid someone hourly rate to build it and then launched early and improvised. He could still have learned on his own time - he would have saved a lot of it by trading it for some money.
- billforsternz 15y ago
  Pretty sure he was being sarcastic actually.
- jleader 15y ago
  It also depends whether that "few months" was solely spent learning the technology, or whether it was also spent iterating on the concept. It could be that if he'd hired someone, he'd get a prototype of his initial concept in a day, but then have a harder time iterating because he didn't really understand how the prototype worked.
- Shorel 15y ago
  He paid with his own time, for something much better than simply the software: He is no longer in the path of becoming a PHB.

arunbahl 15y ago

Great post. I want to call attention to Will's first comment from Josh Strike, who articulated what I'm thinking pretty well. (Doesn't seem like I can link to it, so I'm pasting - and truncating, so I encourage you to read his full comment): Most coders are autodidacts. The ones without a DIY ethos drop out pretty quickly. Frankly, the reason the tech side feels free to give the business side a lot of crap -- other than the fact that you guys make more than we do, in mysterious ways unimaginable to us -- is that the business heads tend to lack that DIY drive to figure it out for themselves. Basically, wasting our time with things they could google, or learn to do, if they were as diligent as we are being (and we, being paid less to do more, feel a right to gripe). But you don't sound like that; actually, you sound like you took the hacker mentality and applied it to business, which is what we'd all like to do. SO, bravo. The fact that you did that is great. Don't rest on your laurels (or your co-founder); keep improving yourself. [...] The most important thing to remember if you're going to delegate -- whether it's hammering nails, making pizza dough or writing code -- is that the guy with his hands in the pie has the power to demolish you if you don't understand what he's doing. And lives by the sweat of his balls. So buy him a beer...and never consider anything to be magic. If you do, you've just put yourself in the dangerous position of not being able to fix it when it breaks down.

pdenya 15y ago

Link bait much? Story ends with him getting a technical co-founder.

freshfunk 15y ago

In any startup, founders have to play more than one role. Ergo having a strict business person and strict coder isn't great. What's better is if you have: - A product person who's done product management, product marketing, user experience and design. Ideally they have a CS background and can understand technology. - A technical person who's a generalist and can code things up from front to back. They should also have some sense of front-end design as well as product. BOTH needs to have some business sense. By having product/technical overlap, they can work together to create an elegant solution both in the product sense as well as the technical sense. By both having business sense, they can create a product that fits a business. A business person with no sense of product is not a cofounder because they can't scope anything out. Just having ideas and describing a solution by mouth or pointing at another website and saying "do this" is not cofounder material. A coder who needs to be told exactly what to do for anything and has no feedback or insight on the product/business is also not a cofounder. These aren't hard and fast rules but is my conclusion based on my entrepreneur experiences. Great product/business people are more than just ideas. Great technical people are more than just "coders."

dorian-graph 15y ago

For my exam revision (university) I've been reading about the history of computing. In general what happened with many (Pascal, Leibniz, Schickard, etc.) is that they had an idea yet the current state of technology and skilled workers was not adequate. So, many of them learnt how to do build their ideas themselves. They learnt the necessary skills. From the textbook: ".. he designed his first machine and contracted some local workmen for the construction work. An unworkable instrument was duly delivered. As many were to find after him, having a good idea was not enough, one also had to master the arts of tool making and engineering."

MatthewB 15y ago

This is amazing and exactly what I am doing. I kept thinking I need a technical cofounder, and I still wouldn't mind having one, but that doesn't mean I can't become a technical cofounder myself. I took the same route. I picked up a ruby on rails book and just started building. I have experience with C++ and Java, but I haven't done any major coding in a couple years. I'm now building out my idea and it feels great not to have to depend on someone else to drive development.

capdiz 15y ago

Before you learn or when your contemplating to learn how to program its best you don't tackle programming as a whole. Get the basics first then start work on an idea you might have. Its suprising how solutions will stream in fast because you have a well defined problem in your mind no matter whether the idea is a desktop or web app. The best way to learn is to work on a real problem a few days after getting the basics. The hardest part isn't getting the answers but defining the problem at hand clearly.

johnx123 15y ago

Summary of this thread: PG and YC screwed everyone's conscience--that doing "anything" to get success is legal:-(

liquidcool 15y ago

I have a friend that has done pretty much the same thing, although he hasn't found a tech cofounder yet. My recommendation to the business types is to spec it out. Even if coding is beyond you, using something like Balsamiq to create a prototype that you can workshop, usability test, gauge interest in, etc. is a big help. Even if you can't convince a techie to join you, they'll be more likely to help point out the parts that will be easy or hard to implement, which can help define your MVP and estimate startup costs if you decide to outsource it.