6 ms·

Google HR reportedly advised mental health leave in response to compl

34 points by lladnar 6y ago

fxtentacle 6y ago
To me, it seems reasonable to offer someone a paid leave after they encountered something that made them feel uneasy at work. I'm guessing this is a generic rule and not specific to sexual harassment, as the article attempts to imply. Oh and then there's the usual Gebru mud throwing.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  To me it seems reasonable to put a stop to the unprofessional behavior that's making people feel uneasy at work.
xiphias2 6y ago
If somebody just looks at her tweets, it's clear why she was fired: https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1341135824730013696 https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1341135824730013696 She was probably acting unprofessionally, unlike James Damore who didn't say any of those words and always wrote respectfully (at least from what was public). Google having a strong political bias backfired, I think it's too late to contain the damage.
- torstenvl 6y ago
  Oh. Oh boy. > Before my role existed, Google had NEVER, and I mean fucking NEVER hired an HBCU student into a tech role . . . I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning . . . 300 Black and Brown students . . . .
- 0xy 6y ago
  That whole set of tweets is incredibly unprofessional. If you seriously believe and have the proof that you were subjected to racism at work and were fired on the basis of race, sue. Spilling one-sided conjecture, unproven accusations and extremely rude denigration of your previous co-workers is a strategy that is petty and destined to fail. Given her words in support of someone who was fired for giving unreasonable and unprofessional ultimatums to her employer, I wouldn't be surprised if she did that exact same thing. You can't give out ultimatums without being prepared to walk away immediately. If you aren't prepared, then your bluff can be called and you'll be left with nothing. Additionally, putting your diversity achievements on a pedestal as a reason you shouldn't be fired is entitlement. If you caused a toxic situation at work, it doesn't matter what your achievements are -- you should go. Given these toxic tweets, if her work behavior was anything similar then her firing is both not surprising and I'd argue inevitable. Toxic employees poison culture.
- throw99912 6y ago
  She has some points. Google indeed has problems. Relevant HN thread from yesterday that got buried as soon as it came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 Title: 'Google’s approach to Black schools explains why there's few Black engs in Tech'
- moistbar 6y ago
  The tweets have been made private, it seems. https://web.archive.org/web/20210227001627/https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1341135824730013696 https://web.archive.org/web/20210227001627/https://twitter.c... "In several cases, students were questioned IN INTERVIEWS about the quality of the computer science curriculum that they were receiving at their HBCU" Dear god, it's almost like they're being interviewed for a tech job or something.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    "I went to Stanford, how do you feel about the quality of the CS program at Howard? Why would you not apply to Stanford?" ... or any variation thereof is entirely a useless, antagonistic interview question. A school's relative "quality" holds little relevance to the applicant's merit. And the claimed comments that interviewers would imply, or outright state, that perhaps the applicant should have gone somewhere other than a HBCU are a varying combination of elitist, condescending, ignorant or racist.
    - hedora 6y ago
      “What was your favorite course?” “Tell me about a course project where you did well.” Are reasonable questions for someone directly out of undergrad, with no internships, etc.
    - moistbar 6y ago
      "Did your computer science program cover X, Y, and Z" is not an elitist, condescending, ignorant, or racist question.
      - John23832 6y ago
        Going to a specific school, in this case Howard, and not knowing whether they cover the topics that you consider prerequisites for hire is pretty dumb. How do you know Stanford, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon, etc cover the necessary topics? Are all students ask? I doubt it because that's the most basic background research OF THE SCHOOL that Google would do before going there.
- John23832 6y ago
  > it's clear why she was fired >she was "probably" acting unprofessionally (emphasis mine) Those two statements are not congruent. Her statements on twitter are her own, YOU have no idea how she acted professionally. As for James Damore, he pushed phrenological ideas as to why the disparity between men and women in tech/software engineering was ok. By his own written ideas he was displaying "right biases" (disparities between men/women or whites/racial minorities are natural and just) You post implies your biases very clearly.
  - macinjosh 6y ago
    > As for James Damore, he pushed phrenological ideas as to why the disparity between men and women in tech/software engineering was ok. Damore's writings were based on peer reviewed scientific literature. Quite the opposite of "phrenology". The anti-science sentiments rising in society from anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, and disregard for biology (like the comment above) is somewhat frightening.
    - John23832 6y ago
      I don't disregard science, nor practice any of that nonsense. I believe in science fully. Trying to attach me to those anti-scientific ideas is kind of asinine. I doubt you actually read what Damore wrote, you just agree with his idea. None of what Damore pushed was any more scientific in nature than phrenology. Take a look for yourself: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... Whenever he points to a biological origin, it's followed by a single study that doesn't come to the point that he's trying to make. It's a lot of "men are this, and women are that" with no substance behind it. If you're google, you can follow the short links, but most are dead.
      - alisonkisk 6y ago
        Your holding Damore to a far higher standard than th non-reproducible psych studies he was responding to, which were endorsed by the paid staff of a multi billion dollar corporation.
- tareqak 6y ago
  Not everyone behaves identically as they do in work with how they behave in social media.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    If the tweets were about hard core partying, getting drunk, having threesomes, showing off with sports cars....sure, I agree with you, that habing a private life should be accepted and celebrated. But these were work related tweets that show her unprofessional behaviour that will go with her to the next place.
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      Gosh, maybe she doesn't want to be hired by a company that prefers your version of professionalism over taking an interest in its mission.
- ipsocannibal 6y ago
  Whenever I read a series of tweets like this I can't help but see someone with a Savior complex who has realized that all of their saving was not what their employer wanted. They also usually fail to mention all of the things the employer did want that they didn't do because they were too busy being a savior.
- ipsocannibal 6y ago
  "Most successfully BLACK QUEER WOMAN recruiter" the author capitalized what was most important, her holier than thou, unproductive behavior protection labels. I bet she VEGAN, does CROSSFIT, and is an ACTIVIST as well.
- throw54217 6y ago
  Stories like this are getting flagged and buried in HN yesterday and today. The tweeter has something solid going on - look at this thread [1] about Google and HBCUs. It got buried yesterday. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 Another thread from today got flagged: [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 Google already had grave issues regarding it's top brass in the past, who got off scot-free. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-harassment-andy-rubin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-... https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-some-strange-ideas-about-his-female-employees-according-to-a-new-book/ https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-... Damore wasn't disrespectful?, that's some ignorance. That memo was a shame.
- dpweb 6y ago
  This is unfair. Probably acting unprofessionally. She’s made some serious accusations, let her go to court with them. Discrimination in hiring is not unfortunate, it’s illegal. Maybe she’s a nut. Maybe she’s a witness to illegal discrimination. Maybe both! But her claims should not be summarily dismissed. Bring your evidence to the court if need be.
Bancakes 6y ago
It pays to be sensitive.
TheButlerian 6y ago
Some people do not get that all this diversity thing the companies are doing is pure virtue signaling and they don't give a fuck about it....
underseacables 6y ago
Human Resources is there to protect the company, not the employee. It can never be said enough: HR is NOT your friend.
ipsocannibal 6y ago
From what I understand Amazon doesn't even look at the school you attended during hiring nor do they confirm that you've graduated. I was told this is do to the lack of correlation between your school and indicators of success at Amazon. I wonder if the tweeter would have an easier or harder time creating a black employee pipeline there.

34 points by lladnar 6y ago

To me, it seems reasonable to offer someone a paid leave after they encountered something that made them feel uneasy at work. I'm guessing this is a generic rule and not specific to sexual harassment, as the article attempts to imply. Oh and then there's the usual Gebru mud throwing.

alisonkisk 6y ago
To me it seems reasonable to put a stop to the unprofessional behavior that's making people feel uneasy at work.

xiphias2 6y ago

If somebody just looks at her tweets, it's clear why she was fired: https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1341135824730013696 https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1341135824730013696 She was probably acting unprofessionally, unlike James Damore who didn't say any of those words and always wrote respectfully (at least from what was public). Google having a strong political bias backfired, I think it's too late to contain the damage.

torstenvl 6y ago
Oh. Oh boy. > Before my role existed, Google had NEVER, and I mean fucking NEVER hired an HBCU student into a tech role . . . I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning . . . 300 Black and Brown students . . . .
0xy 6y ago
That whole set of tweets is incredibly unprofessional. If you seriously believe and have the proof that you were subjected to racism at work and were fired on the basis of race, sue. Spilling one-sided conjecture, unproven accusations and extremely rude denigration of your previous co-workers is a strategy that is petty and destined to fail. Given her words in support of someone who was fired for giving unreasonable and unprofessional ultimatums to her employer, I wouldn't be surprised if she did that exact same thing. You can't give out ultimatums without being prepared to walk away immediately. If you aren't prepared, then your bluff can be called and you'll be left with nothing. Additionally, putting your diversity achievements on a pedestal as a reason you shouldn't be fired is entitlement. If you caused a toxic situation at work, it doesn't matter what your achievements are -- you should go. Given these toxic tweets, if her work behavior was anything similar then her firing is both not surprising and I'd argue inevitable. Toxic employees poison culture.
throw99912 6y ago
She has some points. Google indeed has problems. Relevant HN thread from yesterday that got buried as soon as it came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 Title: 'Google’s approach to Black schools explains why there's few Black engs in Tech'
moistbar 6y ago
The tweets have been made private, it seems. https://web.archive.org/web/20210227001627/https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1341135824730013696 https://web.archive.org/web/20210227001627/https://twitter.c... "In several cases, students were questioned IN INTERVIEWS about the quality of the computer science curriculum that they were receiving at their HBCU" Dear god, it's almost like they're being interviewed for a tech job or something.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  "I went to Stanford, how do you feel about the quality of the CS program at Howard? Why would you not apply to Stanford?" ... or any variation thereof is entirely a useless, antagonistic interview question. A school's relative "quality" holds little relevance to the applicant's merit. And the claimed comments that interviewers would imply, or outright state, that perhaps the applicant should have gone somewhere other than a HBCU are a varying combination of elitist, condescending, ignorant or racist.
  - hedora 6y ago
    “What was your favorite course?” “Tell me about a course project where you did well.” Are reasonable questions for someone directly out of undergrad, with no internships, etc.
  - moistbar 6y ago
    "Did your computer science program cover X, Y, and Z" is not an elitist, condescending, ignorant, or racist question.
    - John23832 6y ago
      Going to a specific school, in this case Howard, and not knowing whether they cover the topics that you consider prerequisites for hire is pretty dumb. How do you know Stanford, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon, etc cover the necessary topics? Are all students ask? I doubt it because that's the most basic background research OF THE SCHOOL that Google would do before going there.
John23832 6y ago
> it's clear why she was fired >she was "probably" acting unprofessionally (emphasis mine) Those two statements are not congruent. Her statements on twitter are her own, YOU have no idea how she acted professionally. As for James Damore, he pushed phrenological ideas as to why the disparity between men and women in tech/software engineering was ok. By his own written ideas he was displaying "right biases" (disparities between men/women or whites/racial minorities are natural and just) You post implies your biases very clearly.
- macinjosh 6y ago
  > As for James Damore, he pushed phrenological ideas as to why the disparity between men and women in tech/software engineering was ok. Damore's writings were based on peer reviewed scientific literature. Quite the opposite of "phrenology". The anti-science sentiments rising in society from anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, and disregard for biology (like the comment above) is somewhat frightening.
  - John23832 6y ago
    I don't disregard science, nor practice any of that nonsense. I believe in science fully. Trying to attach me to those anti-scientific ideas is kind of asinine. I doubt you actually read what Damore wrote, you just agree with his idea. None of what Damore pushed was any more scientific in nature than phrenology. Take a look for yourself: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... Whenever he points to a biological origin, it's followed by a single study that doesn't come to the point that he's trying to make. It's a lot of "men are this, and women are that" with no substance behind it. If you're google, you can follow the short links, but most are dead.
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      Your holding Damore to a far higher standard than th non-reproducible psych studies he was responding to, which were endorsed by the paid staff of a multi billion dollar corporation.
tareqak 6y ago
Not everyone behaves identically as they do in work with how they behave in social media.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  If the tweets were about hard core partying, getting drunk, having threesomes, showing off with sports cars....sure, I agree with you, that habing a private life should be accepted and celebrated. But these were work related tweets that show her unprofessional behaviour that will go with her to the next place.
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    Gosh, maybe she doesn't want to be hired by a company that prefers your version of professionalism over taking an interest in its mission.
ipsocannibal 6y ago
Whenever I read a series of tweets like this I can't help but see someone with a Savior complex who has realized that all of their saving was not what their employer wanted. They also usually fail to mention all of the things the employer did want that they didn't do because they were too busy being a savior.
ipsocannibal 6y ago
"Most successfully BLACK QUEER WOMAN recruiter" the author capitalized what was most important, her holier than thou, unproductive behavior protection labels. I bet she VEGAN, does CROSSFIT, and is an ACTIVIST as well.
throw54217 6y ago
Stories like this are getting flagged and buried in HN yesterday and today. The tweeter has something solid going on - look at this thread [1] about Google and HBCUs. It got buried yesterday. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 Another thread from today got flagged: [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 Google already had grave issues regarding it's top brass in the past, who got off scot-free. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-harassment-andy-rubin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-... https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-some-strange-ideas-about-his-female-employees-according-to-a-new-book/ https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-... Damore wasn't disrespectful?, that's some ignorance. That memo was a shame.
dpweb 6y ago
This is unfair. Probably acting unprofessionally. She’s made some serious accusations, let her go to court with them. Discrimination in hiring is not unfortunate, it’s illegal. Maybe she’s a nut. Maybe she’s a witness to illegal discrimination. Maybe both! But her claims should not be summarily dismissed. Bring your evidence to the court if need be.

Bancakes 6y ago

It pays to be sensitive.

TheButlerian 6y ago

Some people do not get that all this diversity thing the companies are doing is pure virtue signaling and they don't give a fuck about it....

underseacables 6y ago

Human Resources is there to protect the company, not the employee. It can never be said enough: HR is NOT your friend.

ipsocannibal 6y ago

From what I understand Amazon doesn't even look at the school you attended during hiring nor do they confirm that you've graduated. I was told this is do to the lack of correlation between your school and indicators of success at Amazon. I wonder if the tweeter would have an easier or harder time creating a black employee pipeline there.