10 ms·

> I wish I could say the same for myself. Care to elaborate a little? Seems like your experience could help others in a similar situation.

by dstick 6y ago

irjustin 6y ago
Nothing remotely close. I'm simply asking, that given the situation, would I have made the same decision? That I could be such a hero. But am I willing to stick my neck out? Risk my career, who will hire me? Maybe someone will, but I just put a huge black mark in many's eyes. I have 2 children, a wife, and myself who rely on my income stream. Am I willing to let that go? Do I have to sell my house to make ends meet if I can't get a job? I want to be able to say I could do what McDonald or Snowden did, but if I'm honest, probably not.
- ricksunny 6y ago
  At nigh-on 40 years old, I’ve come to believe that ethical violations are routinely perpetrated on the world because good people who would otherwise speak out ‘have a wife and kids to feed’. As if that life decision to start a family, for all of the happiness and wonder that comes from it, plays right into the hands of the management structure inevitably looming over it.
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    I once heard an executive react with glee to the news that a senior compliance officer’s wife was pregnant: “Well now he’s going to have to play nice!” The employee had a reputation for being... particular... before he was willing to sign off on certain things.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  It's almost like we are blackmailed into doing the wrong things all the time (on different levels of "importance"). The fact is that this is a distinct feature of our society, we have to "earn our living" or be left behind. Do we really want to keep such a negative incentive in place?
  - layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
    "A married man with a family will do anything for money" - Talleyrand
  - cduzz 6y ago
    This is the basic nature of a modern American corporation where the culture of the leadership implicitly believes there is a fiduciary obligation to shareholders to generate a profit. There is a self-selecting process where people promote other people who make those small decisions in a particular way. If you climb well or are unlucky enough to look under the wrong rocks you get to an inflection point where your option is to become a whistle blower, leave, ask for a promotion, or become the patsy. Often you can avoid this (if that's your desire) by frequently and vocally asking about the audit requirements of a particular business process...
    - vinceguidry 6y ago
      It runs deeper than that. Basic human nature throughout history has been to demonstrate loyalty to those giving you your livelihood. Up to and including fighting wars and providing resources to war fighters, and supporting them when they committed what we today would consider war crimes. Progress as a species can be looked at as a progression from more violent ways to organize to less violent ways, and corporations are less violent than what they came from, royal charters. Whistleblowing is and will always be considered an act of treason, or direct disloyalty, against those who are expecting you to support the enterprise.
    - AniseAbyss 6y ago
      Thats our business culture. You don't really get rewarded for doing the RIGHT THING. Hell your stock options will go down if you do the whistle blower thing. You don't get punished for NOT doing the right thing. Precious few CEOs and CFOs in jail. Ultimately it comes down to your own conscience and being able to sleep at night.
    - mumblemumble 6y ago
      It goes beyond profit motive. Independent of any business concerns, there's a lot of cultural value placed on optimism, and on appearing competent and confident. Which means that there can be great personal shame in saying things like, "I don't know," or, "This might not work out." There's constant pressure to smile, look on the bright side, and, at all costs, avoid doing something that might earn you a reputation as a debbie downer. I think that's actually a much bigger factor in some of these situations than any profit motive. Profit motive doesn't push rational people to keep doubling down no matter what; there is room for risk management concerns. But a corporation is not a single mind, it's a bunch of individuals acting in their own interest. Individuals' concern for their social capital within their teams tends to be a much more immediate and pressing motive than relatively remote and abstract things like shareholder profit.
- II2II 6y ago
  > I want to be able to say I could do what McDonald or Snowden did, but if I'm honest, probably not. I suspect that same can be said of most people. In cases like this, it is incredibly hard to make the right decision before the fact since there are only two scenarios in which you will be redeemed: you're ignored and disaster ensues, or you're acknowledged and further inspection reveals the component failure. A successful launch or inspection does not change the fact that it was the right decision, yet it will most likely have a deeply negative personal impact. The bit about being trusted to make decisions is apparently irrelevant.

> I wish I could say the same for myself. Care to elaborate a little? Seems like your experience could help others in a similar situation.

by dstick 6y ago

> I wish I could say the same for myself. Care to elaborate a little? Seems like your experience could help others in a similar situation.

irjustin 6y ago

Nothing remotely close. I'm simply asking, that given the situation, would I have made the same decision? That I could be such a hero. But am I willing to stick my neck out? Risk my career, who will hire me? Maybe someone will, but I just put a huge black mark in many's eyes. I have 2 children, a wife, and myself who rely on my income stream. Am I willing to let that go? Do I have to sell my house to make ends meet if I can't get a job? I want to be able to say I could do what McDonald or Snowden did, but if I'm honest, probably not.

ricksunny 6y ago
At nigh-on 40 years old, I’ve come to believe that ethical violations are routinely perpetrated on the world because good people who would otherwise speak out ‘have a wife and kids to feed’. As if that life decision to start a family, for all of the happiness and wonder that comes from it, plays right into the hands of the management structure inevitably looming over it.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  I once heard an executive react with glee to the news that a senior compliance officer’s wife was pregnant: “Well now he’s going to have to play nice!” The employee had a reputation for being... particular... before he was willing to sign off on certain things.
pietrovismara 6y ago
It's almost like we are blackmailed into doing the wrong things all the time (on different levels of "importance"). The fact is that this is a distinct feature of our society, we have to "earn our living" or be left behind. Do we really want to keep such a negative incentive in place?
- layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
  "A married man with a family will do anything for money" - Talleyrand
- cduzz 6y ago
  This is the basic nature of a modern American corporation where the culture of the leadership implicitly believes there is a fiduciary obligation to shareholders to generate a profit. There is a self-selecting process where people promote other people who make those small decisions in a particular way. If you climb well or are unlucky enough to look under the wrong rocks you get to an inflection point where your option is to become a whistle blower, leave, ask for a promotion, or become the patsy. Often you can avoid this (if that's your desire) by frequently and vocally asking about the audit requirements of a particular business process...
  - vinceguidry 6y ago
    It runs deeper than that. Basic human nature throughout history has been to demonstrate loyalty to those giving you your livelihood. Up to and including fighting wars and providing resources to war fighters, and supporting them when they committed what we today would consider war crimes. Progress as a species can be looked at as a progression from more violent ways to organize to less violent ways, and corporations are less violent than what they came from, royal charters. Whistleblowing is and will always be considered an act of treason, or direct disloyalty, against those who are expecting you to support the enterprise.
  - AniseAbyss 6y ago
    Thats our business culture. You don't really get rewarded for doing the RIGHT THING. Hell your stock options will go down if you do the whistle blower thing. You don't get punished for NOT doing the right thing. Precious few CEOs and CFOs in jail. Ultimately it comes down to your own conscience and being able to sleep at night.
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    It goes beyond profit motive. Independent of any business concerns, there's a lot of cultural value placed on optimism, and on appearing competent and confident. Which means that there can be great personal shame in saying things like, "I don't know," or, "This might not work out." There's constant pressure to smile, look on the bright side, and, at all costs, avoid doing something that might earn you a reputation as a debbie downer. I think that's actually a much bigger factor in some of these situations than any profit motive. Profit motive doesn't push rational people to keep doubling down no matter what; there is room for risk management concerns. But a corporation is not a single mind, it's a bunch of individuals acting in their own interest. Individuals' concern for their social capital within their teams tends to be a much more immediate and pressing motive than relatively remote and abstract things like shareholder profit.
II2II 6y ago
> I want to be able to say I could do what McDonald or Snowden did, but if I'm honest, probably not. I suspect that same can be said of most people. In cases like this, it is incredibly hard to make the right decision before the fact since there are only two scenarios in which you will be redeemed: you're ignored and disaster ensues, or you're acknowledged and further inspection reveals the component failure. A successful launch or inspection does not change the fact that it was the right decision, yet it will most likely have a deeply negative personal impact. The bit about being trusted to make decisions is apparently irrelevant.