4 ms·

> It's not wrong, of course, but it's been repeated for many years and won't lead to fresh conversation. Assumes there are no new readers on HN and that everyo

by gist 6y ago

> It's not wrong, of course, but it's been repeated for many years and won't lead to fresh conversation. Assumes there are no new readers on HN and that everyone reads almost everything and nothing needs repeating. Also it's very 'no noobies' as if anyone who is anyone should know the ropes already. And that is not the case. And I've mentioned this before a few times so I will repeat. Why don't you have in your profile that you are a moderator? How would someone new to HN know why you are saying what you are saying and why you have the right to pin what you say at the top?

dang 6y ago
I think you're underestimating the ability of HN readers to figure things out. Perhaps that is the answer to both questions.
- endisneigh 6y ago
  For what it’s worth I agree with the parent comment. This is the only forum I’ve ever seen where moderators are not clearly labeled as such.
  - beaconstudios 6y ago
    fwiw, it's just dang as far as I'm aware.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    Curious are there other more significant differences?
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    But you never present how that’s a problem. You’d be succumbing to the ancient forum pastime of hypothetical rules/scenarios lawyering where you confuse the ability to invent a scenario (someone not knowing dang is a mod for 60seconds and that’s worth worrying about for unsaid reason) with the need to change the forum.
- bordercases 6y ago
  This equivalent of "RTFM" is a hostile percept for communication, as it implies that it is right to hide or obfuscate relevant information so that the speaker has less of a job to do when producing clear speech. There are benefits to "RTFM". They may involve making sure there are shared assumptions during speech that allow further speech to be economized equitably between speaker and receiver. They may involve the internalization of the structure of a model so that they it be applied fluently in some practical setting. Your suggestion fails to satisfy either condition as the cost is either inequitable, or the benefit is irrelevant. Putting a tag that says "moderator" next to a username is such a cheap quality of life improvement that even if what you claim is true, it really shouldn't be the job of the audience to figure anything out in the first place, as by comparison, it looks like a strong disfavor.
  - justin66 6y ago
    > it really shouldn't be the job of the audience to figure anything out in the first place Words to avoid living by.
    - bordercases 6y ago
      Things can be made endlessly complicated, or absolutely simple. So it's better to lean towards simplicity as one can converge towards minimal confusion.
  - dang 6y ago
    Oh I don't agree. I think there are downsides to putting a 'mod' tag beside usernames, quite strong downsides actually, in addition to the upside that you guys are correctly noting. It's a tradeoff. I'm glad that I listened to my intuition 7 years ago (ack) when I became responsible for HN, and chose to trust the way things had always functioned here. I don't see this as RTFM; there's no FM to begin with, other than perhaps https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.
    - 6y ago
brudgers 6y ago
To me, HN is not hostile toward new users. But part of what makes HN HN is it discourages behaviors new users might bring from elsewhere on the internet when those behaviors are disharmonious with the norms of the HN community. This is how new users acculturate into HN. Or how new users discover HN might not be for them. Or what might stay the determination that it is or isn’t. HN hasn’t been turning into Reddit for a long while because sometimes the moderators make comments like this and the community goes “Okay” because they value the community and can see the moderator’s point and those matter more than typing something easy to type because it is all over Twitter. More seriously, if HN’s moderation conflicts with your deeply held principles, HN might not be for you. Like any social media that makes someone unhappy, a voluntary break, temporary or complete, may be warranted. HN is not going to suddenly become a democracy or collective. Moderation is a big part of what makes HN HN.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by gist 6y ago

dang 6y ago

I think you're underestimating the ability of HN readers to figure things out. Perhaps that is the answer to both questions.

endisneigh 6y ago
For what it’s worth I agree with the parent comment. This is the only forum I’ve ever seen where moderators are not clearly labeled as such.
- beaconstudios 6y ago
  fwiw, it's just dang as far as I'm aware.
- brudgers 6y ago
  Curious are there other more significant differences?
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  But you never present how that’s a problem. You’d be succumbing to the ancient forum pastime of hypothetical rules/scenarios lawyering where you confuse the ability to invent a scenario (someone not knowing dang is a mod for 60seconds and that’s worth worrying about for unsaid reason) with the need to change the forum.
bordercases 6y ago
This equivalent of "RTFM" is a hostile percept for communication, as it implies that it is right to hide or obfuscate relevant information so that the speaker has less of a job to do when producing clear speech. There are benefits to "RTFM". They may involve making sure there are shared assumptions during speech that allow further speech to be economized equitably between speaker and receiver. They may involve the internalization of the structure of a model so that they it be applied fluently in some practical setting. Your suggestion fails to satisfy either condition as the cost is either inequitable, or the benefit is irrelevant. Putting a tag that says "moderator" next to a username is such a cheap quality of life improvement that even if what you claim is true, it really shouldn't be the job of the audience to figure anything out in the first place, as by comparison, it looks like a strong disfavor.
- justin66 6y ago
  > it really shouldn't be the job of the audience to figure anything out in the first place Words to avoid living by.
  - bordercases 6y ago
    Things can be made endlessly complicated, or absolutely simple. So it's better to lean towards simplicity as one can converge towards minimal confusion.
- dang 6y ago
  Oh I don't agree. I think there are downsides to putting a 'mod' tag beside usernames, quite strong downsides actually, in addition to the upside that you guys are correctly noting. It's a tradeoff. I'm glad that I listened to my intuition 7 years ago (ack) when I became responsible for HN, and chose to trust the way things had always functioned here. I don't see this as RTFM; there's no FM to begin with, other than perhaps https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.
  - 6y ago

brudgers 6y ago

To me, HN is not hostile toward new users. But part of what makes HN HN is it discourages behaviors new users might bring from elsewhere on the internet when those behaviors are disharmonious with the norms of the HN community. This is how new users acculturate into HN. Or how new users discover HN might not be for them. Or what might stay the determination that it is or isn’t. HN hasn’t been turning into Reddit for a long while because sometimes the moderators make comments like this and the community goes “Okay” because they value the community and can see the moderator’s point and those matter more than typing something easy to type because it is all over Twitter. More seriously, if HN’s moderation conflicts with your deeply held principles, HN might not be for you. Like any social media that makes someone unhappy, a voluntary break, temporary or complete, may be warranted. HN is not going to suddenly become a democracy or collective. Moderation is a big part of what makes HN HN.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]