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I read it, it’s an article from 2017 proclaiming bitcoin is worthless for a payment system while it is now 2021 and amount of value exchanged on bitcoin is more

I read it, it’s an article from 2017 proclaiming bitcoin is worthless for a payment system while it is now 2021 and amount of value exchanged on bitcoin is more than ever. Author is clueless and the article is worth nothing.

dmitriid 6y ago
> it’s an article from 2017 proclaiming bitcoin is worthless for a payment system It's clear you didn't even pretend to read it. Or understand all the problems listed. Payments is just a part of the first article. The sequel doesn't even talk about payments. > it is now 2021 and amount of value exchanged on bitcoin is more than ever. Amount of value exchanged on bitcoin !== it's useful for payments. Actual payments (you know, for goods and services) are a very, very, very tiny fraction of exchanges. > Author is clueless and the article is worth nothing. Ah. So you didn't actually read it. Or you'd try to address the authors' points (or link to an article that addresses his points) like: - The key feature of a new payment system is the confidence that if the goods aren’t as described you’ll get your money back (bitcoin has none, and is busy reinvents centralized institutions to help with that) - The government-backed banking system provides FDIC guarantees, reversibility of ACH, identity verification, audit standards, and an investigation system when things go wrong. Bitcoin, by design, has none of these things. - In terms of micropayments, people enthuse that bitcoin transactions are free and instant. Actually, they take about eight minutes to clear and cost about four cents to process. <- This is now outdated. It's significantly worse now. Median confirmation time is ~10 minutes (and was as high as 25 minutes just a few months ago [1]) and transaction fees ar $13 to $30[2] ^ And that's just payments The article and its sequel go on to discuss the issues with smart contracts, distributed storage, computing, and messaging, authentity verification and so on. [1] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/median-confirmation-time https://www.blockchain.com/charts/median-confirmation-time [2] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction
- keymone 6y ago
  > It's clear you didn't even pretend to read it. Or understand all the problems listed. Payments is just a part of the first article. The sequel doesn't even talk about payments. it's clear you didn't even pretend reading my comments or understand the words i'm writing. we can be playing this game all day. > Amount of value exchanged on bitcoin !== it's useful for payments. Actual payments (you know, for goods and services) are a very, very, very tiny fraction of exchanges. since when you're the authority on what counts as useful and what counts as actual? > The key feature of a new payment system is the confidence that if the goods aren’t as described you’ll get your money back that might be the key feature in the payment system of your choice, but it's the anti-feature for people who find bitcoin valuable. finality of transactions is way more important and on top of a system with finality you can build all sorts of escrow services that offer money-back due to customer dissatisfaction and what not. without finality your payment system is worth shit. > The government-backed banking system provides FDIC guarantees, reversibility of ACH, identity verification, audit standards, and an investigation system when things go wrong. Bitcoin, by design, has none of these things again, all anti features. i don't want them in a system that handles my assets. thank you very much. > In terms of micropayments, people enthuse that bitcoin transactions are free and instant. Actually, they take about eight minutes to clear and cost about four cents to process. <- This is now outdated. It's significantly worse now. Median confirmation time is ~10 minutes (and was as high as 25 minutes just a few months ago [1]) and transaction fees ar $13 to $30[2] this also shows how clueless you yourself are in anything bitcoin related. confirmation time is a function of hashrate fluctuations, not some inherent property of bitcoin that gets worse with time. and the article author is obviously clueless for even claiming nonsense like "people enthuse that bitcoin transactions are free and instant", his exposure to bitcoin is probably a single drunk talk in a bar. and btw in payment channels payments are instant and essentially free and unlike visa and other payment processors, payment channels are completely independent and dont require centralized coordination, so i can already claim with all seriousness that bitcoin is able to process unlimited number of transactions per second. read up on the topic before arguing. PS I personally made an on chain payment today, the fee was less than $2, which is still great considering that micropayments were never supposed to be on chain to begin with. And yeah, fees today are higher than fees last year because Bitcoin is more expensive and fees are denominated in bitcoin, duh.

dmitriid 6y ago

> it’s an article from 2017 proclaiming bitcoin is worthless for a payment system It's clear you didn't even pretend to read it. Or understand all the problems listed. Payments is just a part of the first article. The sequel doesn't even talk about payments. > it is now 2021 and amount of value exchanged on bitcoin is more than ever. Amount of value exchanged on bitcoin !== it's useful for payments. Actual payments (you know, for goods and services) are a very, very, very tiny fraction of exchanges. > Author is clueless and the article is worth nothing. Ah. So you didn't actually read it. Or you'd try to address the authors' points (or link to an article that addresses his points) like: - The key feature of a new payment system is the confidence that if the goods aren’t as described you’ll get your money back (bitcoin has none, and is busy reinvents centralized institutions to help with that) - The government-backed banking system provides FDIC guarantees, reversibility of ACH, identity verification, audit standards, and an investigation system when things go wrong. Bitcoin, by design, has none of these things. - In terms of micropayments, people enthuse that bitcoin transactions are free and instant. Actually, they take about eight minutes to clear and cost about four cents to process. <- This is now outdated. It's significantly worse now. Median confirmation time is ~10 minutes (and was as high as 25 minutes just a few months ago [1]) and transaction fees ar $13 to $30[2] ^ And that's just payments The article and its sequel go on to discuss the issues with smart contracts, distributed storage, computing, and messaging, authentity verification and so on. [1] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/median-confirmation-time https://www.blockchain.com/charts/median-confirmation-time [2] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction

keymone 6y ago
> It's clear you didn't even pretend to read it. Or understand all the problems listed. Payments is just a part of the first article. The sequel doesn't even talk about payments. it's clear you didn't even pretend reading my comments or understand the words i'm writing. we can be playing this game all day. > Amount of value exchanged on bitcoin !== it's useful for payments. Actual payments (you know, for goods and services) are a very, very, very tiny fraction of exchanges. since when you're the authority on what counts as useful and what counts as actual? > The key feature of a new payment system is the confidence that if the goods aren’t as described you’ll get your money back that might be the key feature in the payment system of your choice, but it's the anti-feature for people who find bitcoin valuable. finality of transactions is way more important and on top of a system with finality you can build all sorts of escrow services that offer money-back due to customer dissatisfaction and what not. without finality your payment system is worth shit. > The government-backed banking system provides FDIC guarantees, reversibility of ACH, identity verification, audit standards, and an investigation system when things go wrong. Bitcoin, by design, has none of these things again, all anti features. i don't want them in a system that handles my assets. thank you very much. > In terms of micropayments, people enthuse that bitcoin transactions are free and instant. Actually, they take about eight minutes to clear and cost about four cents to process. <- This is now outdated. It's significantly worse now. Median confirmation time is ~10 minutes (and was as high as 25 minutes just a few months ago [1]) and transaction fees ar $13 to $30[2] this also shows how clueless you yourself are in anything bitcoin related. confirmation time is a function of hashrate fluctuations, not some inherent property of bitcoin that gets worse with time. and the article author is obviously clueless for even claiming nonsense like "people enthuse that bitcoin transactions are free and instant", his exposure to bitcoin is probably a single drunk talk in a bar. and btw in payment channels payments are instant and essentially free and unlike visa and other payment processors, payment channels are completely independent and dont require centralized coordination, so i can already claim with all seriousness that bitcoin is able to process unlimited number of transactions per second. read up on the topic before arguing. PS I personally made an on chain payment today, the fee was less than $2, which is still great considering that micropayments were never supposed to be on chain to begin with. And yeah, fees today are higher than fees last year because Bitcoin is more expensive and fees are denominated in bitcoin, duh.