4 ms·

> All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. I really wish the US

by dheera 6y ago

> All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. I really wish the US had this. Here, even simple acts like registering to vote or getting a driver license, bank account, credit card means your personal residence gets leaked to spammers, scammers, data brokers, and eventually, stalkers. There really should be laws saying that personal addresses cannot be given to third parties without explicit, optional, opt-in consent.

ghaff 6y ago
The information in voter registration isn't "leaked." It's public as a matter of record. (The details probably vary by state.) So are real estate purchases. (Although the latter can be gotten around in various ways.) There are tradeoffs between transparency and privacy.
- dheera 6y ago
  That's a problem. If I knew it was going to be given out, I would probably have not registered to vote, and I wasn't told about that by the people who helped me register. I don't think I agreed to any ToS that said that my address would be available to the public. As much as I think voter turnout is important, making personal addresses accessible to the public crosses the line for me.
KirillPanov 6y ago
I'm thinking of buying a condemned, uninhabitable house in a tax foreclosure auction simply so I can list it as my residential address. Most places that demand a utility bill will accept a property tax bill, so it doesn't even have to have working water/power (the cheapest doomshacks have both shut off). You'd be surprised how cheap some of these places are. But it does have to show up as "residential" in the USPS databases.
- dheera 6y ago
  My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. Most places that ask for utility bills will accept a phone bill or insurance bill or some such which you can have arranged to be sent to that address. I'd be interested to know if there are similar services that are cheaper and ideally less well-known than UPS but equally reliable. Delivery to my real address with the ability to trust them with my real address would also be cool to have. BTW -- if you have cash to burn, I'd think that renting a cheap studio somewhere that you don't actually live in (and as a bonus, can use as a storage unit, or sublease to someone if the lease allows) would be cheaper and more peace-of-mind than dealing with property taxes, crime, pests, and other issues around an uninhabitable house in your name.
  - KirillPanov 6y ago
    > My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. USPS maintains a very immaculately curated list of CMRAs (Commercial Mail Receiving Agents). It's not hard because they need to register with USPS in order to receive mail on behalf of customers who pay them for mail-receiving service. USPS is allowed to deny them mail delivery if they refuse to register, and does. Every place that wants to know your residential address, and insists that it is actually residential, checks the address you provide against this list. Side note: I knew a woman who bought a storefront that had previously been a mailboxes-etc type place. It was a complete nightmare for her, none of the banks or insurers or credit card companies would believe that was her business' physical address because it was on that list. Apparently it takes 1-2 years to fall off the list. Eventually she had to switch to a small local bank and have the bank manager come to physically inspect the location so they could override the databroker software. > renting a cheap studio somewhere That's an ongoing recurring cost. Also nobody will rent a place unless it's (somewhat) inhabitable; buying an uninhabitable toxic dump is actually cheaper than renting anything that can be advertised as inhabitable. Last of all, I am completely fed up with landlords insisting on credit checks. The data brokers exploit this like you wouldn't believe. That's why they have such perfectly accurate residential addresses for all renters. > peace-of-mind than dealing with property taxes, crime, pests, Property taxes are beyond easy. You don't even need to receieve the bill! The amount you owe is a matter of public record, and on the web in almost every jurisdiction. Once a year: look it up, buy a postal money order with cash, write the parcel number on it, mail it, done. Property taxes are also based on the value of the property, so for a toxic dump the taxes are tiny. Crime and pests don't matter if you don't visit the location. Take the mailbox off the front of the house after closing so no mail can be delivered there by accident. Definitely buy it through an LLC so that long-tail events (it burns down taking the neighbor's house with it, kids break in and injure themselves, etc) don't come back to you.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Jameson Lopp had spent tens of thousands of dollars or more on lawyers to make his life untracable after the CIA got into his house, and he shared a lot of what he did.
  - KirillPanov 6y ago
    Um, CIA? Sounds tinfoily. I'm aware that he's been the target of at least one mugging attempt, and I think he even maintains a list of people who were robbed as a result of being high-profile early adopters of bitcoin. But the CIA? Are you sure aliens weren't involved?
vinay427 6y ago
I get plenty of spam calls (EDIT: and mail) here in Switzerland as well. It seems only marginally lower than the number I got in the US, and that's in a much shorter time here. Anecdotally, they seem comparable in practice in my experience, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong if there's any sort of data here.

by dheera 6y ago

ghaff 6y ago

The information in voter registration isn't "leaked." It's public as a matter of record. (The details probably vary by state.) So are real estate purchases. (Although the latter can be gotten around in various ways.) There are tradeoffs between transparency and privacy.

dheera 6y ago
That's a problem. If I knew it was going to be given out, I would probably have not registered to vote, and I wasn't told about that by the people who helped me register. I don't think I agreed to any ToS that said that my address would be available to the public. As much as I think voter turnout is important, making personal addresses accessible to the public crosses the line for me.

KirillPanov 6y ago

I'm thinking of buying a condemned, uninhabitable house in a tax foreclosure auction simply so I can list it as my residential address. Most places that demand a utility bill will accept a property tax bill, so it doesn't even have to have working water/power (the cheapest doomshacks have both shut off). You'd be surprised how cheap some of these places are. But it does have to show up as "residential" in the USPS databases.

dheera 6y ago
My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. Most places that ask for utility bills will accept a phone bill or insurance bill or some such which you can have arranged to be sent to that address. I'd be interested to know if there are similar services that are cheaper and ideally less well-known than UPS but equally reliable. Delivery to my real address with the ability to trust them with my real address would also be cool to have. BTW -- if you have cash to burn, I'd think that renting a cheap studio somewhere that you don't actually live in (and as a bonus, can use as a storage unit, or sublease to someone if the lease allows) would be cheaper and more peace-of-mind than dealing with property taxes, crime, pests, and other issues around an uninhabitable house in your name.
- KirillPanov 6y ago
  > My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. USPS maintains a very immaculately curated list of CMRAs (Commercial Mail Receiving Agents). It's not hard because they need to register with USPS in order to receive mail on behalf of customers who pay them for mail-receiving service. USPS is allowed to deny them mail delivery if they refuse to register, and does. Every place that wants to know your residential address, and insists that it is actually residential, checks the address you provide against this list. Side note: I knew a woman who bought a storefront that had previously been a mailboxes-etc type place. It was a complete nightmare for her, none of the banks or insurers or credit card companies would believe that was her business' physical address because it was on that list. Apparently it takes 1-2 years to fall off the list. Eventually she had to switch to a small local bank and have the bank manager come to physically inspect the location so they could override the databroker software. > renting a cheap studio somewhere That's an ongoing recurring cost. Also nobody will rent a place unless it's (somewhat) inhabitable; buying an uninhabitable toxic dump is actually cheaper than renting anything that can be advertised as inhabitable. Last of all, I am completely fed up with landlords insisting on credit checks. The data brokers exploit this like you wouldn't believe. That's why they have such perfectly accurate residential addresses for all renters. > peace-of-mind than dealing with property taxes, crime, pests, Property taxes are beyond easy. You don't even need to receieve the bill! The amount you owe is a matter of public record, and on the web in almost every jurisdiction. Once a year: look it up, buy a postal money order with cash, write the parcel number on it, mail it, done. Property taxes are also based on the value of the property, so for a toxic dump the taxes are tiny. Crime and pests don't matter if you don't visit the location. Take the mailbox off the front of the house after closing so no mail can be delivered there by accident. Definitely buy it through an LLC so that long-tail events (it burns down taking the neighbor's house with it, kids break in and injure themselves, etc) don't come back to you.
xiphias2 6y ago
Jameson Lopp had spent tens of thousands of dollars or more on lawyers to make his life untracable after the CIA got into his house, and he shared a lot of what he did.
- KirillPanov 6y ago
  Um, CIA? Sounds tinfoily. I'm aware that he's been the target of at least one mugging attempt, and I think he even maintains a list of people who were robbed as a result of being high-profile early adopters of bitcoin. But the CIA? Are you sure aliens weren't involved?

vinay427 6y ago

I get plenty of spam calls (EDIT: and mail) here in Switzerland as well. It seems only marginally lower than the number I got in the US, and that's in a much shorter time here. Anecdotally, they seem comparable in practice in my experience, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong if there's any sort of data here.