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> The 2016 back-to-back spill and explosion, for example caused gas shortages in six states. Resident of Raleigh, NC. That leak is part of why we own a Chevy V

by js2 6y ago

> The 2016 back-to-back spill and explosion, for example caused gas shortages in six states. Resident of Raleigh, NC. That leak is part of why we own a Chevy Volt. I remember thinking: "I don't want to be beholden to gasoline." But I also remember thinking: "I don't want to be beholden to the electric grid." > Enbridge has estimated that properly deactivating its aging Line 3 pipeline and taking it out of the ground would cost more than $1.2 billion dollars. The company is currently considering simply abandoning it and paying off the landowners involved, which it says would cost a relatively paltry $85 million, but leave corrosive pipes littered underneath the landscape. Privatize the profits, socialize the costs. These companies should have been taxed for these costs, with the money going into a fund earmarked for cleanup.

BostonEnginerd 6y ago
We had the same thought when we bought our Volt. Electricity is fine for 99% of our driving, but it’s nice to have the fossil backup in case it’s needed.
BostonEnginerd 6y ago
Also, I think the cleanup should be required when someone wants to build this sort of project. Absurd that they don’t have to clean up the whole mess.
hedora 6y ago
Enbridge is simultaneously attempting to get permits to build more pipelines on Native American land. In this particular case, there’s an obvious solution: Clean up all your messes, or no new permits for you.
- monadic8 6y ago
  ....only if you can tie this to enough politicians that they fear for reelection and fight for it. These events are barely covered by major newspapers; there's zero chance of the reasonable solution happening.
clouddrover 6y ago
> I remember thinking: "I don't want to be beholden to gasoline." But I also remember thinking: "I don't want to be beholden to the electric grid." Then you'll need your own solar panels. Either on your roof or on your car or both: - Sono Motors Sion: https://sonomotors.com/ https://sonomotors.com/ - Lightyear One: https://lightyear.one/ https://lightyear.one/ - Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a small panel as an option. Maybe useful if you live somewhere sunny: https://pvbuzz.com/hyundai-ioniq-5-solar-panels/ https://pvbuzz.com/hyundai-ioniq-5-solar-panels/
- sovreign 6y ago
  One additional "car with solar panels" option is the upcoming Aptera car that can charge (ideally 40 miles per day). https://www.aptera.us https://www.aptera.us
  - zbrozek 6y ago
    I used to captain a solar race car team. I don't really want solar panels on my car; I'd much rather have them installed as stationary infrastructure. On-vehicle there are pressures to stay compact and lightweight, which costs durability. Cars are also almost always more-shaded than rooftops. A super tiny panel to run a cabin fan is reasonable, but on an EV with an enormous battery pack it's unnecessary complexity.
    - mjcohen 6y ago
      Also, solar panels on a car are natural targets for idiots. Has to be protected against rocks and paint.
quantified 6y ago
Yeah, I’d like to know why the payoffs are that much cheaper than the work. Just a question of relative negotiating power between the parties involved?
AniseAbyss 6y ago
I fully agree with you but companies will just declare bankruptcy and the government will still be left holding the bag. Corporations will always find a way to worm themselves out of taking responsibility.
- foerbert 6y ago
  It's not like there's zero options here. There are lots of options. You seem to be implying we should just give up trying anything. Even the example provided doesn't seem to fall to your bankruptcy idea. If you collect the money for the cleanup on an on-going basis during operation, how does bankruptcy get them out of it? You can change bankruptcy rules. You can even make leadership personally liable. Hell, you could make shareholders liable if you really wanted. We're talking about legally created entities operating at a large scale, and the government. If the government gets around to making a serious stab at changing things, they absolutely can. Admittedly, that's a monstrous 'if' there. But it's not some foregone conclusion that we should just give up on even thinking about holding corporations accountable because it's not even possible.
- katbyte 6y ago
  You make cleanup costs part of the initial construction costs/operating costs.

by js2 6y ago

BostonEnginerd 6y ago

We had the same thought when we bought our Volt. Electricity is fine for 99% of our driving, but it’s nice to have the fossil backup in case it’s needed.

BostonEnginerd 6y ago

Also, I think the cleanup should be required when someone wants to build this sort of project. Absurd that they don’t have to clean up the whole mess.

hedora 6y ago

Enbridge is simultaneously attempting to get permits to build more pipelines on Native American land. In this particular case, there’s an obvious solution: Clean up all your messes, or no new permits for you.

monadic8 6y ago
....only if you can tie this to enough politicians that they fear for reelection and fight for it. These events are barely covered by major newspapers; there's zero chance of the reasonable solution happening.

clouddrover 6y ago

> I remember thinking: "I don't want to be beholden to gasoline." But I also remember thinking: "I don't want to be beholden to the electric grid." Then you'll need your own solar panels. Either on your roof or on your car or both: - Sono Motors Sion: https://sonomotors.com/ https://sonomotors.com/ - Lightyear One: https://lightyear.one/ https://lightyear.one/ - Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a small panel as an option. Maybe useful if you live somewhere sunny: https://pvbuzz.com/hyundai-ioniq-5-solar-panels/ https://pvbuzz.com/hyundai-ioniq-5-solar-panels/

sovreign 6y ago
One additional "car with solar panels" option is the upcoming Aptera car that can charge (ideally 40 miles per day). https://www.aptera.us https://www.aptera.us
- zbrozek 6y ago
  I used to captain a solar race car team. I don't really want solar panels on my car; I'd much rather have them installed as stationary infrastructure. On-vehicle there are pressures to stay compact and lightweight, which costs durability. Cars are also almost always more-shaded than rooftops. A super tiny panel to run a cabin fan is reasonable, but on an EV with an enormous battery pack it's unnecessary complexity.
  - mjcohen 6y ago
    Also, solar panels on a car are natural targets for idiots. Has to be protected against rocks and paint.

quantified 6y ago

Yeah, I’d like to know why the payoffs are that much cheaper than the work. Just a question of relative negotiating power between the parties involved?

AniseAbyss 6y ago

I fully agree with you but companies will just declare bankruptcy and the government will still be left holding the bag. Corporations will always find a way to worm themselves out of taking responsibility.

foerbert 6y ago
It's not like there's zero options here. There are lots of options. You seem to be implying we should just give up trying anything. Even the example provided doesn't seem to fall to your bankruptcy idea. If you collect the money for the cleanup on an on-going basis during operation, how does bankruptcy get them out of it? You can change bankruptcy rules. You can even make leadership personally liable. Hell, you could make shareholders liable if you really wanted. We're talking about legally created entities operating at a large scale, and the government. If the government gets around to making a serious stab at changing things, they absolutely can. Admittedly, that's a monstrous 'if' there. But it's not some foregone conclusion that we should just give up on even thinking about holding corporations accountable because it's not even possible.
katbyte 6y ago
You make cleanup costs part of the initial construction costs/operating costs.