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The blissful political incorrectness of Soviet comedies
- ben_w 6y agoI find it curious how the phrase “politically correct” entered western political language as as self-critical satire by the left (presumably in reference to Soviet political officers), before being transformed into criticism by right-wing commentators, to the situation of being surprised that the Soviets didn’t care about power imbalances and what we would now regard as inappropriate behaviour. Such linguistic shifts happen a lot (title of this forum included), but nonetheless tickles my mind whenever I see it.
- Veen 6y agoSomething similar happened with "social justice warrior," which was originally used by people on the left.
- rektide 6y agoany more suggestions would be most welcome
- uniqueid 6y agoWell, if you're into 'politically incorrect' movies, virtually anything before 1980 will fit the bill. You could start with Birth of Nation which celebrates the KKK. Then move on to the Jazz Singer which prominently features black face. Breakfast at Tiffany's is famous for Mickey Rooney's 'ching chong' routine. There's really no shortage.
- cortesoft 6y agoI am guessing they are asking for more Russian media... weird to focus on the political correctness part.
- uniqueid 6y agoYou're probably right. It's 'political incorrectness' as a selling-point that irritates me. I don't know if that's weird, probably not worth debating
- drewcoo 6y agoMickey. Mickey Rooney. Who when he was younger did a lot of movies as a character named "Andy Hardy." Andy Rooney "played" a curmudgeon on 60 Minutes.
- uniqueid 6y agoOops, I've corrected the comment now.
- versale 6y ago“The most charming and attractive” 1985 “The irony of fate” 1975 “Winter cherry” 1985
- gumby 6y agoI’d be interested in pointers to Soviet equivalents of the James Bond books or films.
- btilly 6y agoTry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_Moments_of_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_Moments_of_Spring
- avmich 6y agoCan't recommend highly enough, this is a defining movie.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- eps 6y agoNowhere close to the Bond-style films though. Just a fair warning to the uninitiated.
- 082349872349872 6y agoFor one thing, 17 moments was based on historical events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sunrise_(World_War_II) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sunrise_(World_War_I...
- gumby 6y agoThanks, I wasn't really asking for the actual bond but speaking Russian; I was asking "how did the Soviets address the same kinds of issue in popular culture" (if they did at all -- a parallel commenter suggests that it wasn't really a topic safe for anyone to touch).
- pjc50 6y agoIt doesn't seem to have been a big genre, probably because of the difficulty of talking about secret agents in a country where secrecy was brutally enforced and the KGB were deeply feared. I can however reccomend the Italian bond knockoff genre, including the ridiculous OK Connery: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062078/?ref_=nm_knf_t1 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062078/?ref_=nm_knf_t1 Starring Neil Connery. Music by Ennio Morricone.
- pjc50 6y agoHow about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbelievable_Adventures_of_Italians_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbelievable_Adventures_of_Ita... ; screwball comedy about running all over Leningrad in search of a buried fortune. I realised it wasn't your ordinary comedy when one of the early jokes involved landing an Aeroflot flight on a highway. There's a splendidly bizarre explosion/dream sequence bit in the middle. And a lion chase. https://russianfilmhub.com/movies/unbelievable-adventures-of-italians-in-russia-1974/ https://russianfilmhub.com/movies/unbelievable-adventures-of... Anyway, much of Mosfilm is on Youtube.
- paganel 6y agoThe Soviet mini-series that adapted Jules Verne's "The Children of Captain Grant" [1] is really nice, it's from the mid-'80s, a time that supposedly was bleak because of Chernobyl and the post-Andropov and post-Chernenko years, but nevertheless to kid me the TV series seemed full of optimism and of endless opportunities and marvels. That's from where I got the nickname I use on this website, too. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088635/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088635/
- achikin 6y agoAcademy Award Winner “Burnt by the sun” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_by_the_Sun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_by_the_Sun
- andrei_says_ 6y agoI didn’t think that’s a comedy though. There’s an abundance of serious, existential, often heavy Russian films. I just saw Beanpole and felt excited about a light, genuinely funny Russian comedy. Any recommendations?
- Mikhail_Edoshin 6y agoAnything by Gaidai [1]. "Kidnapping, Caucasian Style" [2] is probably the most popular or try "Operation 'Y'" [3], a movie that consist from three short novels with the same protagonist. Or, may be a good fit, his rendering of three O'Henry novels [4]: the first is the more serious one, the second is funnier but mostly conversational, and the third is burlesque action. An example of a modern Russian comedy would be the "Yolki" series with [5] as the first installment. [1] https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301145/ https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301145/ [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060584/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060584/ [3] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059550/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059550/ [4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056982/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056982/ [5] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1782568/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1782568/
- VladimirGolovin 6y agoThe article talks mostly about lighter-hearted movies, but I'd still want to recommend my favorite examples of "burdensome beauty" (as they put it) by Tarkovsky: "Зеркало" (The Mirror): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYZhXm02kN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYZhXm02kN0 "Сталкер" (Stalker): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGRDYpCmMcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGRDYpCmMcM "Андрей Рублев" (Andrei Rublev): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6kqlveBhVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6kqlveBhVY And, if you're into Slavic cinema in general, I'd also recommend "Life is a Miracle" by Emir Kusturica: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322420/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322420/ -- he's not a Russian director, but he is fantastic.
- riffraff 6y ago> What’s interesting about Afonya is its picture of Soviet life at a time when we were told all was grey, unsmiling misery there. Instead it’s a world with palpable similarities to the West: pop music, glamour photos, consumerism and (undeniably) a class-system. I had a similar feeling watching the 1969 hungarian movie "A tanú" ("The Witness")[0]. While the movie is about communist Hungary, it is interesting how some of the themes are common to satire of any disfunctional organization (incompetents that get promoted because of politicking, clueless people in power, nepotism, unjust punishment etc). It's a pretty funny movie, and there's a recently restored version so it should be possible to find it if you try a bit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witness_(1969_Hungarian_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witness_(1969_Hungarian_fi...
- rsj_hn 6y agoThe Firemen's Ball (1967) is a czech comedy directed by Milos Forman, also worth a watch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firemen%27s_Ball https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firemen%27s_Ball
- selimthegrim 6y agoCriterion's streaming channel is currently pairing this with the Georgian short 'Fatherland' about a resurrected Stalin.
- pjc50 6y agoStrange how the meaning of "political correctness" has shifted, since it was coined to cover the deployment of "political officers" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commissar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commissar ) enforcing adherence to communism within the Soviet military and wider society. All of these films were made under a strict political censorship system. (Russian cinema is legitimately great, though; why not watch the traditional pre-launch Soyuz quarantine film, "White Sun of Desert"; https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066565/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066565/ It's rather like a more cynical, more Russian "Dollars Trilogy" film)
- cema 6y agoTo add a little background, the "White Sun of the Desert" belongs to the genre which is sometimes called the "eastern", in the footsteps of the American "western". It describes what was known in the Soviet historiography as "the establishment of the Soviet power in Central Asia".
- klyrs 6y agoWords can have multiple meanings. From a US perspective, this does seem weird, as "political correctness" is largely about not punching down on people who face adversity in our culture. The Russian definition seems to mean punching up; criticizing the government.
- whatshisface 6y agoA Soviet would probably reply with the claim that the party was the direct representative of the working class, and therefore not any more of an acceptable target than members of the working class themselves.
- wernercd 6y agoPolitical correctness in the US is largely about people with "privilege" being offended on behalf of other people and enforcing rules that help no one.
- dec0dedab0de 6y ago
- ojnabieoot 6y agoThe “political incorrectness” angle is really an unnecessary and very stupid aside that tarnishes an otherwise decent piece: > Nor could [Office Romance] be much less politically correct. One can only imagine what a modern HR-manager would make of Office Romance, of its “power-imbalances”, “problematic” attitudes and “inappropriate” behaviour. That said, the same HR-manager should at least pause to wonder what, in doing all we can to make such relationships shameful and unfeasible, we’re also doing to ourselves. The correct answer of course is that any professional, HR or otherwise, prioritizes facts over nice stories in movies. And the facts are that many supervisor-subordinate relationships are exploitative, often start from illegal harassment, and in any event are bad for business. Putting concepts like power imbalances and inappropriate behavior in scare quotes is just creepy and indicates sexist contempt for victims of workplace sexual harassment. Markowski is clearly working in his politics here (which are largely centered around hyperventilating about “cancel culture”), but even by the standards of the genre it is particularly gross to suggest that the only people concerned about bosses who sleep with their employees are the PC Prudes who run HR.
- inglor_cz 6y agoAn already dead veteran of pair counseling here in Czechia once wrote that of 400 randomly chosen cases of marital infidelity that ended up in his office, 397 started in the workplace. People spend a lot of time together in the workplace, more than with their family. It is likely that sex will continue to happen there. No doubt some of it is really exploitative; but nowhere nearly all of it.
- watwut 6y agoThat however says nothing about how many of those that went on between boss ans employe were exploitative, coerced or massive nepotism where boss is giving goods to those that will couple. It is orthogonal thing.
- Veen 6y ago> And the facts are that many supervisor-subordinate relationships are exploitative It's also a fact that many happy marriages began as a relationship between superior and subordinate.
- colordrops 6y agoOne of my favorite movies of all time is Kin Dza Dza. It's a low budget comedy sci-fi movie with amazing ideas and a surreal aesthetic, and is quite funny and gets better with each watch. It's a subtle criticism of the soviet union in the era before its fall. You'll be saying "Kuuuu" for days after watching it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin-dza-dza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin-dza-dza! Edit: just noticed a critic quoted on wikipedia called it "Mad Max meets Monty Python by way of Tarkovsky", which is a very accurate description.
- rainydaybook 6y agoOne of my favorite films too! I saw it first on soviet TV, and found it amazing that all characters seems so human, naturalistic; and the world building is so organic. There are no flaws in this movie, everything just hangs together so well and effortlessly.
- zhenyakovalyov 6y agoi second this. i was looking for a well translated version to be able to share it with my english speaking friends, but the official translations do not seem to convey the idiosyncratic language that is used in the movie.
- colordrops 6y agoIf the translations are losing a lot of meaning, then that just shows how great the movie is, because my native English speaking friends and I love it.
- ilyagr 6y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYHv8eJrW2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYHv8eJrW2Y This has English subtitles. At a glance, they seem quite good, which is, in a way, hilarious. English speakers, when you see "Without gravitsappa the pepelats can only fly like this" it is a good translation, and you are getting the authentic Kin-Dza-Dza experience. ---- On second look, though, "Guys, how do you roll out the pepelats without the gravitsappa? Not good." should really be "Guys, how do you take the pepelats out of the garage without a gravitsappa? Not good."
- idoubtit 6y agoAmong the Russian films with a strong political innuendo I've seen, "Welcome, no trespassing" was the sharpest and one of the most enjoyable. It's about a scout camp where the the director oppresses the children with stupid formal procedures, patriotic ceremonies, and abuses of power. I could not understand why this film was allowed, since the camp is an obvious metaphor of the USSR. I'm also surprised one of the most famous Russian comedies, Sauna Blues, was not in this article. Even more since its main actor died this year. Sauna blues is a funny romance, yet it depicts Russian cities were buildings and furniture are similar and spiritless, so much that people can't recognize their apartment or their street.
- kome 6y ago> I could not understand why this film was allowed, since the camp is an obvious metaphor of the USSR. Just like today, you are allowed to make fun of power, but you are not allowed to take it seriously.
- rkantbe 6y agoSoviets != Russia, yes the USSR was sort of a new iteration of The Russian Empire, but you can't call armenians, ukrainians, georgians and so on russians this simply wrong
- option 6y agoThere are infinitely less difference between Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians than, for example, between those Americans who live in California and Texas.
- qaq 6y agoThere is an armed Russian Ukrainian armed conflict happening right now ...
- option 6y agopurely artificial and fueled by Russian dictatorship. Oh, and there was an “insurrection” in US Capital in case you didn’t notice. The only difference is that the first one has a very strong external support while the second one does not and, luckily, failed quickly.
- cosmodisk 6y agoI never quite understood how the Soviet system permitted some of these films that quickly becam e classics of their genre: The Twelve Chairs
- trhway 6y agoyou couldn't openly and clearly critique/satirize the whole System nor the Party nor the Leader (with all 3 being basically equivalent). You were allowed (and to some degree and in some shape encouraged) to critique and have a laugh at supposedly small and separate defects/impurities on the shining body of the System, the defects which were still present as supposedly exceptions and not the rule ("otdelnye nedostatki") thus your work would supposedly be improving the System instead of weakening it. The great talent of some of those writers, directors, actors, etc. was to show those supposedly small separate defects in the formally allowed way while really making it a deep and profound satire of the whole System. The approach of course isn't unique to USSR, it has been the forced choice of artists through the history of ideological oppression in human civilization, and giving the rise of ideological intolerance everywhere today i expect to see again that approach more and more.
- konjin 6y agoHumor is a harmless pressure valve, why should those in power be worried by it?
- Spinnaker_ 6y agoI forget the source of this, but I read that it was by design. It was understood that inconsistent censorship and oppression was actually more effective than the consistent type. Knowing exactly what you are not allowed to say can be comforting: You trust in the rules and there is no reason to be afraid. Add in inconsistencies and suddenly this comfort is removed. It adds an extra layer of uncertainty and fear to everything. Two people can say the same thing and only one disappears. No one knows where the line lies. It's a nasty psychological game and quite sick and twisted actually.
- rainydaybook 6y agoLol, a simple explanation is always far more likely than an intricately complex one: that censorship is subjective and was enacted by different people with varying tastes and preferences, guided by vague and contradictory directions from above that would shift depending on changes in political direction, membership of the Politburo, etc etc.
- tjalfi 6y agoCould anyone recommend comedic Russian novels or short stories? Edited to add the following: Thanks for the recommendations!
- avmich 6y agoWatch Gaidai, Ryazanov or Danelia (who also did some great comedies, like Mimino), you won't get too wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Gaidai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Gaidai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldar_Ryazanov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldar_Ryazanov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgiy_Daneliya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgiy_Daneliya Edit: probably not so short, just regular stories... so maybe not what you're looking for.
- achikin 6y ago[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitil [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeralash https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeralash
- avmich 6y ago"Davydov and Goliath" and "Golden button" are coming to mind.
- 082349872349872 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs
- rainydaybook 6y ago12 Chairs + Golden Calf by Ilf and Petroff; A dog's heart and Master and Margarita by Boulgakoff. I've heard Zosh'enko was also considered very funny at the time, but I'm not sure how well his stuff has aged..
- Grustaf 6y agoGogol essentially invented the Russian novel, and most of his stories are very comedic. Here's a particular favourite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_How_Ivan_Ivanovich_Quarreled_with_Ivan_Nikiforovich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_How_Ivan_Ivanovich... and the story that influenced me to move to Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government_Inspector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government_Inspector Whatever you do, don't miss The Nose, there's even a brilliant pinscreen animation adaptation: https://www.openculture.com/2014/09/animation-of-nikolai-gogols-the-nose.html https://www.openculture.com/2014/09/animation-of-nikolai-gog...
- sublimefire 6y agoMost of us who lived in the soviet union, watched a couple of those at least a few times: - Кавказская пленница https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping,_Caucasian_Style https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping,_Caucasian_Style - Операция „Ы“ и другие приключения Шурика https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Y_and_Shurik%27s_Other_Adventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Y_and_Shurik%27s_Oth... - Джентльмены удачи https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen_of_Fortune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen_of_Fortune - Ирония судьбы, или С лёгким паром! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Irony_of_Fate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Irony_of_Fate Last one is something you'd see every new years eve. (spoiler here) It uncovers a stupidity of cities in the USSR, when those were identical up to a street name. My mom and dad would probably come up with a slightly different list of their favorites, nonetheless they would agree these can be called "true" classics. The important bit to remember here is that all of that production was going through "checks" to make sure there are no anti-communist ideas in the movies. Creators had to either be very careful to disguise some of the sentiment or not to have it. At the end of the day people were not idiots and understood the role of the government. We all had someone close who was a survivor from gulag or a returning labor camp prisoner or a displaced individual with no right to get back to his village. So our lives were kind of similar to everybody elses in the west, provided you eliminate those awful bits. And maybe because those terrible parts were absent in these movies, we were able to have a good laugh. Honestly watch those and have a laugh. If it seems not funny then try learning some russian and watch them again :D I know it is a terrible dad joke.
- eugenejen 6y agoAs a non russia speaker years ago, I walked into a russian bar in nyc with those movies on tvs behind the bar. i was hooked and watch them many times. i started to learn russian from duolingo. years later, i laughed when i heard the dialogue. i am also happy that those movies got me to learn another language.
- 082349872349872 6y agoClassics to the point that current music videos gender-swap famous scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6amCG2KHlRg&t=90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6amCG2KHlRg&t=90s compare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aFimeu-4DM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aFimeu-4DM (also, the song "5 minutes", a kind of soviet "it's time to start the music, it's time to light the lights", from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Night gets plenty of contemporary reprises. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5viIzp4rxC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5viIzp4rxC0 )
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoComrade Detective - my favorite old Soviet series. On YouTube now.
- moron4hire 6y agoIt's not real. They filmed it with modern actors and wrote a script that was supposedly "in the theme of" Soviet-era crime dramas.
- woobar 6y agoAlso, it is "Romanian" not "Soviet". While Romania was a part of the Warsaw pact they were more open to western countries than the rest of the soviet block.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoIt was a satellite, under Soviet dominion and dominated by Soviet politics. But sure lets split hairs.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoAnd marketed it as a 'lost Soviet era series' for some reason. I wonder why folks feel the need to do things like that.
- viraptor 6y ago> What’s interesting about Afonya is its picture of Soviet life at a time when we were told all was grey, unsmiling misery there. Instead it’s a world with palpable similarities to the West: pop music, glamour photos, consumerism and (undeniably) a class-system. Facebook/Instagram effect in old cinema. You don't post grey misery unless you can make it meaningful. The same applies to movies. Nobody would watch their own life either. There's a lot of grey misery available in a sarcastic take though. Polish cinema of the time has lots of that as well.
- AzzieElbab 6y agoGrowing up in the USSR I always been fascinated by how only a few of soviet writers/comedians/directors were allowed some level of freedom while the rest had to stay true to the party propaganda lines. Obviously, these few were most appreciated.
- rainydaybook 6y agoIt was just easier to do some kind of a propaganda film. No risk, no reshoots, no script rewrites, just stamp it out and make a little bit of money and a trip to Yugoslavia and a black sea vacation.
- AzzieElbab 6y agoMy theory is that the elites needed entertainment too. I am judging by the flood of previously unknown art during perestroika. Those books, movies, and the rest took years of work to develop. They didn’t just appear out of thin air after Gorbachev declared glasnost
- AzzieElbab 6y agoI wish some soviet era standup comedian material was translatable to English. The jokes were layered in the way that made them funny, even to people who only grasped the surface layer.
- avmich 6y agoI'm not sure if cultural background is required. "Yesterday those lobsters were so big, really big, but sold for 5 roubles each. But today they are so small, pretty small, but sell for only 3 roubles. Should I have bought yesterday? Should I buy today? I have a frog..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkL54oQgf6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkL54oQgf6I One of the really good humoral references to Soviet cliches is "Lord of the Rings", translated by Goblin (e.g. here - https://oper.ru/trans/view.php?t=1039986472 https://oper.ru/trans/view.php?t=1039986472 ). Imagine Tolkien's heroes played by a sort of lumpen, with snippets of classical Soviet tunes, including patriotic ones, quotes from blockbuster Soviet movies, political jokes etc. - same video, but very different sound. It's a treasure trove of references, but pretty hard to appreciate to someone not familiar with culture. Every significant nation has their own stories of old which everybody knows, which helps people get together. And it's hard to enjoy to outsiders.
- eps 6y agoHere, watch this. Bootleggers (1961) 18 minutes of pure silliness, zero conversation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-ehagcrBg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-ehagcrBg
- throw11711 6y agoHere are the official free YouTube links to most of the films mentioned in this thread, all have english subtitles: 'Sauna Blues' aka 'The Irony of Fate, or Enjoy Your Bath! (1975)': Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpmZnRIMKs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpmZnRIMKs Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TmGPeowN-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TmGPeowN-0 Other good films: Kin-dza-dza! (1986): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYHv8eJrW2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYHv8eJrW2Y Ivan Vasilievich Changes Profession (1973): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a50qT9bW2Qo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a50qT9bW2Qo Welcome, or No Trespassing (1964): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-r9XNmqQHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-r9XNmqQHk Bootleggers (1961) (doesn't have dialogue, so no subs): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-ehagcrBg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-ehagcrBg The Most Charming and Attractive (1985): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7PbeasXUbM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7PbeasXUbM All have english subtitles.