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“Privilege bashing”? Christ, how can it be “bashing” to have a candid discussion about why some people are able to turn their passions into a business, while ot

by tobr 6y ago

“Privilege bashing”? Christ, how can it be “bashing” to have a candid discussion about why some people are able to turn their passions into a business, while others can’t? Your reasoning is dangerously close to “the real racism is suggesting that racism would ever be a factor in anything”.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Tade0 6y ago
Because more often than not it misses the mark - heavily at that. The article mentions skin tone, but doesn't go too deep into why that might influence things - just assumes that this is the case. Meanwhile, as an eastern European, I see typical examples of how social class influences one's options. To clarify my point: we're predominantly white over here and yet experience the same kind of problems, which leads me to think that it's probably not skin tone, over which Americans left and right seem to be so fixated, but other things. Yes, there's racism - that's abundantly clear. But there's also poverty, inequality and an associated lack of access to education. Maybe we would have made more progress as a species if we stopped focusing on easily identifiable features?
- jjj123 6y ago
  Well in the US race is inextricably tied to class. We have a long history of limiting the economic opportunities of Black people that’s led to a pretty extreme black/white wealth gap. So in the US at least, class issues are race issues.
  - Tade0 6y ago
    Europe also has a long history of limiting economic opportunities of black people - arguably much longer than the US, and yet the situation isn't that dire over here. Do you truly believe it's just skin tone?
    - jjj123 6y ago
      What do you mean by “it’s just skin tone”? I’m going to take it you’re asking if I think all inequalities between white and black people in the US are based on interpersonal racism regardless of class? Obviously that’s not true. However, there are many examples in the US’s recent history and present that _are_ explicitly racist. For example, the criminal justice system in the US is definitely classist, but it’s also racist. That’s the case with most of our institutions: both classist and racist to varying degrees. As to why the situation isn’t as dire in Europe than the US? My first question is: is it really less dire there? But assuming it is, I’m guessing it’s one of two things: - Less recent oppression: the US has had explicitly racist policies in housing, policing, schooling, etc. in its very recent past. Some of those practices are still around, just a little less explicit. - welfare programs seem better in general in Europe: when you have no public healthcare, an all but abandoned public schooling system, and an unlivable minimum wage a wealth gap between two races isn’t going to fix itself, it’ll only grow wider.
      - tubularhells 6y ago
        >My first question is: is it really less dire there? Yes, the situation is comparably better in Europe. We don't really know what you Yankees are doing on the other side of the pond, but we don't want any of it here for sure. Your nation is a bad example to all of us.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  Same here, white male from Eastern Europe, if someone has a recipe how to make other people give me lots of money in return for a hope that in a few years I will produce a great computer game... please tell me. Because I would love writing my own game, instead of developing boring applications. Reading all these texts about whiteness and maleness, I suspect an important step in the process is sending someone a picture of a white penis. Okay, I have a picture, but no idea where to send it. Should I just spam everyone and hope for the best? If we are talking about privileges, how about mentioning the most relevant one: rich privilege? Oh I forgot, this one probably does not exist. Too bad, because a rich person could easily fund the game prototype, and maybe even pay for favorable reviews.
smoe 6y ago
I agree with you, but in my opinion, articles like this could generally do a better job separating between privilege and the ridiculous amount of work and commitment it can take to make it in art, especially as an independent. Anecdotally, from the people I know making a living (so not being rich, just at least getting by fully on their own) as independents in music, sound design/engineering, illustration and writing have one thing in common: A 10+ year grind behind them working (either to earn money or practicing) 16 hour days, over weekends, almost no vacations or going out, investing everything in materials instead, living in tiny apartments or with their parents, taking shitty day jobs to earn enough to eat, etc. Where the privilege comes in, is when due to ones socioeconomic status they can't make the above sacrifices even though they would have the necessary perseverance to get through. From my perspective, we definitely need to do better pretty much globally in providing more equal opportunity within societies. But even if this aspect wouldn't exist, people are also just too naive about how much hard work is involved in these types of careers no matter how passionate or talented they think they are. For every one "white dude" that made it, there are probably thousands that didn't, because they spent most their free time playing video games and smoking weed but are blaming it on something else.

by tobr 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Tade0 6y ago

Because more often than not it misses the mark - heavily at that. The article mentions skin tone, but doesn't go too deep into why that might influence things - just assumes that this is the case. Meanwhile, as an eastern European, I see typical examples of how social class influences one's options. To clarify my point: we're predominantly white over here and yet experience the same kind of problems, which leads me to think that it's probably not skin tone, over which Americans left and right seem to be so fixated, but other things. Yes, there's racism - that's abundantly clear. But there's also poverty, inequality and an associated lack of access to education. Maybe we would have made more progress as a species if we stopped focusing on easily identifiable features?

jjj123 6y ago
Well in the US race is inextricably tied to class. We have a long history of limiting the economic opportunities of Black people that’s led to a pretty extreme black/white wealth gap. So in the US at least, class issues are race issues.
- Tade0 6y ago
  Europe also has a long history of limiting economic opportunities of black people - arguably much longer than the US, and yet the situation isn't that dire over here. Do you truly believe it's just skin tone?
  - jjj123 6y ago
    What do you mean by “it’s just skin tone”? I’m going to take it you’re asking if I think all inequalities between white and black people in the US are based on interpersonal racism regardless of class? Obviously that’s not true. However, there are many examples in the US’s recent history and present that _are_ explicitly racist. For example, the criminal justice system in the US is definitely classist, but it’s also racist. That’s the case with most of our institutions: both classist and racist to varying degrees. As to why the situation isn’t as dire in Europe than the US? My first question is: is it really less dire there? But assuming it is, I’m guessing it’s one of two things: - Less recent oppression: the US has had explicitly racist policies in housing, policing, schooling, etc. in its very recent past. Some of those practices are still around, just a little less explicit. - welfare programs seem better in general in Europe: when you have no public healthcare, an all but abandoned public schooling system, and an unlivable minimum wage a wealth gap between two races isn’t going to fix itself, it’ll only grow wider.
    - tubularhells 6y ago
      >My first question is: is it really less dire there? Yes, the situation is comparably better in Europe. We don't really know what you Yankees are doing on the other side of the pond, but we don't want any of it here for sure. Your nation is a bad example to all of us.
Viliam1234 6y ago
Same here, white male from Eastern Europe, if someone has a recipe how to make other people give me lots of money in return for a hope that in a few years I will produce a great computer game... please tell me. Because I would love writing my own game, instead of developing boring applications. Reading all these texts about whiteness and maleness, I suspect an important step in the process is sending someone a picture of a white penis. Okay, I have a picture, but no idea where to send it. Should I just spam everyone and hope for the best? If we are talking about privileges, how about mentioning the most relevant one: rich privilege? Oh I forgot, this one probably does not exist. Too bad, because a rich person could easily fund the game prototype, and maybe even pay for favorable reviews.

smoe 6y ago

I agree with you, but in my opinion, articles like this could generally do a better job separating between privilege and the ridiculous amount of work and commitment it can take to make it in art, especially as an independent. Anecdotally, from the people I know making a living (so not being rich, just at least getting by fully on their own) as independents in music, sound design/engineering, illustration and writing have one thing in common: A 10+ year grind behind them working (either to earn money or practicing) 16 hour days, over weekends, almost no vacations or going out, investing everything in materials instead, living in tiny apartments or with their parents, taking shitty day jobs to earn enough to eat, etc. Where the privilege comes in, is when due to ones socioeconomic status they can't make the above sacrifices even though they would have the necessary perseverance to get through. From my perspective, we definitely need to do better pretty much globally in providing more equal opportunity within societies. But even if this aspect wouldn't exist, people are also just too naive about how much hard work is involved in these types of careers no matter how passionate or talented they think they are. For every one "white dude" that made it, there are probably thousands that didn't, because they spent most their free time playing video games and smoking weed but are blaming it on something else.