5 ms·

Sometimes when reading comments below articles (about vaccination for instance) I wonder if it would be more effective to stoop down to the anti-vaxxers level i

Sometimes when reading comments below articles (about vaccination for instance) I wonder if it would be more effective to stoop down to the anti-vaxxers level instead of trying to refute their claims. Just pump out loads of exaggerated pro-vaxx stuff.

toto444 6y ago
That's clever but there is one reason I think this would not work. Most pro-vaxx don't (and don't want to) spend their entire days thinking about why they are pro-vaxx. Being anti-vaxxer is a lifestyle.
lou1306 6y ago
Sadly, antivaxxers already believe that scientific findings are "exaggerated pro-vaxx stuff".
- darkerside 6y ago
  Which is exactly why this would probably work. It's all bullshit on both sides (in their view), so it might as well be balanced bullshit. Right now, the bullshit evidence points to potential for horrific outcomes, not worth it! I think a similar dynamic is behind Trump's rise to power. First you confuse the people, them you can tell them what to think.
AzzieElbab 6y ago
Every anti-vaxxer I came across had a history involving their kids reaction to vaccines. You may call them bullshitters all you want, but they are incredibly more motivated than you given above mentioned history.
- eloisius 6y ago
  Every one of them had a history of their kids having an adverse reaction to vaccines, you mean? That's quite a different circle than I've swam in. The anti-vaxxers I've known all adopt their beliefs based on some quasi-religious, libertarian, self-sufficiency ideology and indeed have withheld vaccines from their children. Whenever I argued with them they would invariably claim to be familiar with hundred of peer-reviewed papers demonstrating the dangers. When pressed on the issue, one of them finally did dig up this trove of papers for me. Because I'm an idiot, I actually did carefully review and refute them, so I can say from personal experience that the "orders of magnitude" adage is pretty true. Of course, after admitting that maybe these papers weren't the best materials to prove his point, he decided to pivot to another website that would surely contain all the "proof" I need. There is no arguing. They have a heap of bullshit and don't intend to make their beliefs based on critical analysis. If you're curious about how I wasted several evenings reading anti-vax papers you can read my analysis here [1]. It's almost invariably about a disproven link between thimerosal and autism spectrum disorder or random non-scientists hucksters trying to sell crystal healing powers or some horse shit. [1]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19IFB_2dzq6Gb5z6igjsIEFMhYqYpNylbZ756QMmDSuw/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/document/d/19IFB_2dzq6Gb5z6igjsIEFMh...
  - AzzieElbab 6y ago
    I did not say everyone of them, I said everyone that I personally came across. I do not swim in antivaxxers. Are we testing our bs powers?
    - eloisius 6y ago
      When I said "every one of _them_" I was referring to every one of them that you have met. Not implying that you meant all of them in existence. I'm surprised by your experience, because growing up in an Evangelical community in the south anti-vaxxers were a dime a dozen, but I've never met anyone whose children were harmed by vaccines.
      - jacobr1 6y ago
        Possible a timing/age issue. When I first encountered the antivaxers, it was in the late 90s with parents of children on the autistic spectrum grasping at whatever cause they could. Now it is pretty much just the kind of people that are attracted to ideas like climate skepticism or crystal healing. And they all have a bogeyman like evil corporations or the government.
        AzzieElbab 6y ago
        That is exactly it.
      - AzzieElbab 6y ago
        Oh interesting. I don’t know many religious people. I grew up in the USSR.
        varjag 6y ago
        Much of the former USSR is the domain of superstitious and religious. Antivaxx is also mainstream there.
        6y ago
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
EverydayBalloon 6y ago
Labelling people "anti-vaxxers" because they don't want to become beta testers for a new vaccine technology that's only been tested for a fraction of the time as normal vaccines is some first class bullshitting. Bravo!
User23 6y ago
I imagine that in order to be an anti-vaxxer and not crumble under the crushing weight of cognitive dissonance one would have to believe that claims about the benefits of vaccines already are loads of exaggerated pro-vaxx stuff that has been pumped out by (Big Pharma|The Government|Russians|Illuminati|Lizard People|Whatever other crazy thing).

toto444 6y ago

That's clever but there is one reason I think this would not work. Most pro-vaxx don't (and don't want to) spend their entire days thinking about why they are pro-vaxx. Being anti-vaxxer is a lifestyle.

lou1306 6y ago

Sadly, antivaxxers already believe that scientific findings are "exaggerated pro-vaxx stuff".

darkerside 6y ago
Which is exactly why this would probably work. It's all bullshit on both sides (in their view), so it might as well be balanced bullshit. Right now, the bullshit evidence points to potential for horrific outcomes, not worth it! I think a similar dynamic is behind Trump's rise to power. First you confuse the people, them you can tell them what to think.

AzzieElbab 6y ago

Every anti-vaxxer I came across had a history involving their kids reaction to vaccines. You may call them bullshitters all you want, but they are incredibly more motivated than you given above mentioned history.

eloisius 6y ago
Every one of them had a history of their kids having an adverse reaction to vaccines, you mean? That's quite a different circle than I've swam in. The anti-vaxxers I've known all adopt their beliefs based on some quasi-religious, libertarian, self-sufficiency ideology and indeed have withheld vaccines from their children. Whenever I argued with them they would invariably claim to be familiar with hundred of peer-reviewed papers demonstrating the dangers. When pressed on the issue, one of them finally did dig up this trove of papers for me. Because I'm an idiot, I actually did carefully review and refute them, so I can say from personal experience that the "orders of magnitude" adage is pretty true. Of course, after admitting that maybe these papers weren't the best materials to prove his point, he decided to pivot to another website that would surely contain all the "proof" I need. There is no arguing. They have a heap of bullshit and don't intend to make their beliefs based on critical analysis. If you're curious about how I wasted several evenings reading anti-vax papers you can read my analysis here [1]. It's almost invariably about a disproven link between thimerosal and autism spectrum disorder or random non-scientists hucksters trying to sell crystal healing powers or some horse shit. [1]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19IFB_2dzq6Gb5z6igjsIEFMhYqYpNylbZ756QMmDSuw/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/document/d/19IFB_2dzq6Gb5z6igjsIEFMh...
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  I did not say everyone of them, I said everyone that I personally came across. I do not swim in antivaxxers. Are we testing our bs powers?
  - eloisius 6y ago
    When I said "every one of _them_" I was referring to every one of them that you have met. Not implying that you meant all of them in existence. I'm surprised by your experience, because growing up in an Evangelical community in the south anti-vaxxers were a dime a dozen, but I've never met anyone whose children were harmed by vaccines.
    - jacobr1 6y ago
      Possible a timing/age issue. When I first encountered the antivaxers, it was in the late 90s with parents of children on the autistic spectrum grasping at whatever cause they could. Now it is pretty much just the kind of people that are attracted to ideas like climate skepticism or crystal healing. And they all have a bogeyman like evil corporations or the government.
      - AzzieElbab 6y ago
        That is exactly it.
    - AzzieElbab 6y ago
      Oh interesting. I don’t know many religious people. I grew up in the USSR.
      - varjag 6y ago
        Much of the former USSR is the domain of superstitious and religious. Antivaxx is also mainstream there.
        6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

EverydayBalloon 6y ago

Labelling people "anti-vaxxers" because they don't want to become beta testers for a new vaccine technology that's only been tested for a fraction of the time as normal vaccines is some first class bullshitting. Bravo!

User23 6y ago

I imagine that in order to be an anti-vaxxer and not crumble under the crushing weight of cognitive dissonance one would have to believe that claims about the benefits of vaccines already are loads of exaggerated pro-vaxx stuff that has been pumped out by (Big Pharma|The Government|Russians|Illuminati|Lizard People|Whatever other crazy thing).