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Even less adventurous would be to consider that counselling has no effect. But in any case, the study can only provide information regarding counselling with re

Even less adventurous would be to consider that counselling has no effect. But in any case, the study can only provide information regarding counselling with respect to couples that refuse it, not regarding counselling in general.

qznc 6y ago
Scott Alexander wrote he has no clue if counseling works: > I tell patients to have a consistent weekly meeting with their spouse, maybe a Saturday date night. During the meeting, each of them has to say one nice thing about the other, and then one problem that they want to work on. The other person thanks them for the nice thing and then they brainstorm a solution to the problem. If they both agree to the solution, they have to stick with it at least until the next relationship meeting. A lot of my patients have said this really helps them, have continued the meetings long after the immediate crisis passes, and probably expect the technique was invented by some clever person like John Gottman. I will never tell them that actually I picked it up from a different ex-girlfriend, not even the one who writes relationship advice columns. > In conclusion, I have no idea what makes marriages work, and I am not convinced John Gottman does either. https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/27/book-review-the-seven-principles-for-making-marriage-work/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/27/book-review-the-seven-...
- watwut 6y ago
  I find the speculation on what the patients think reaching. I also find the origin in terms of which girlfriend of his first suffested it completely irrelevat. It is standard relationship advice that flies around in various forms. I have seen multiple variants of it - the two componentams are regular dates basically and system which creates safe regular times for dealing with issues outside of conflict situation. I mean honestly, the above does not give much trust to him.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I think the point is that he learned (and presumably implemented) the technique in a relationship that failed and yet he recommends it without sharing that context. “I recommend this construction technique.” “Sounds great. By the way where’d you learn it?” “I learned it building my last house.” “Can I go see it?” “No, it collapsed.”
    - e1g 6y ago
      Houses are meant to stay upright, but relationships are meant to end. Consider all your relationships (romantic or platonic) from middle school, high school, uni, first job, moving to a new city, cofounder etc. the expected, healthy, and natural conclusion for 90% of your lifetime relationships is to end to make room for the next ones. You learn from each one and try to apply from the best to the rest. Sometimes, very few times in life, an end is a failure - but the baseline is that it’s natural and desirable. Unlike your house collapsing.
      - zeroonetwothree 6y ago
        Relationships certainly change but it’s depressing to assume they will all end. Actually most of my relationships have not ended, except mainly when the other party has died.
    - watwut 6y ago
      That would assume that the above technique is silver bullet that is meant to solve all possible relationship problems. Such a thing just can't exist. If that is the standard, then you would give up on giving to fix anything in relationship. Since there is a couple that whose issue won't be solved by that, why bother. Especially with new relationships, you two are basically figuring out whether the couple have compatible value systems, expectations, whether one of them has destructive tendencies it is safer and better to nope out of. It is ok to break up if with the "I realized this is not for me, I think I will be better off with someone else".
- hyperpallium2 6y ago
  If all problems are emotional, then just the very act of a shared commitment, reccomended by an "expert" (e.g. to having "relationship meetings") may be enough to solve them, regardless of content.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

qznc 6y ago

Scott Alexander wrote he has no clue if counseling works: > I tell patients to have a consistent weekly meeting with their spouse, maybe a Saturday date night. During the meeting, each of them has to say one nice thing about the other, and then one problem that they want to work on. The other person thanks them for the nice thing and then they brainstorm a solution to the problem. If they both agree to the solution, they have to stick with it at least until the next relationship meeting. A lot of my patients have said this really helps them, have continued the meetings long after the immediate crisis passes, and probably expect the technique was invented by some clever person like John Gottman. I will never tell them that actually I picked it up from a different ex-girlfriend, not even the one who writes relationship advice columns. > In conclusion, I have no idea what makes marriages work, and I am not convinced John Gottman does either. https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/27/book-review-the-seven-principles-for-making-marriage-work/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/27/book-review-the-seven-...

watwut 6y ago
I find the speculation on what the patients think reaching. I also find the origin in terms of which girlfriend of his first suffested it completely irrelevat. It is standard relationship advice that flies around in various forms. I have seen multiple variants of it - the two componentams are regular dates basically and system which creates safe regular times for dealing with issues outside of conflict situation. I mean honestly, the above does not give much trust to him.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I think the point is that he learned (and presumably implemented) the technique in a relationship that failed and yet he recommends it without sharing that context. “I recommend this construction technique.” “Sounds great. By the way where’d you learn it?” “I learned it building my last house.” “Can I go see it?” “No, it collapsed.”
  - e1g 6y ago
    Houses are meant to stay upright, but relationships are meant to end. Consider all your relationships (romantic or platonic) from middle school, high school, uni, first job, moving to a new city, cofounder etc. the expected, healthy, and natural conclusion for 90% of your lifetime relationships is to end to make room for the next ones. You learn from each one and try to apply from the best to the rest. Sometimes, very few times in life, an end is a failure - but the baseline is that it’s natural and desirable. Unlike your house collapsing.
    - zeroonetwothree 6y ago
      Relationships certainly change but it’s depressing to assume they will all end. Actually most of my relationships have not ended, except mainly when the other party has died.
  - watwut 6y ago
    That would assume that the above technique is silver bullet that is meant to solve all possible relationship problems. Such a thing just can't exist. If that is the standard, then you would give up on giving to fix anything in relationship. Since there is a couple that whose issue won't be solved by that, why bother. Especially with new relationships, you two are basically figuring out whether the couple have compatible value systems, expectations, whether one of them has destructive tendencies it is safer and better to nope out of. It is ok to break up if with the "I realized this is not for me, I think I will be better off with someone else".
hyperpallium2 6y ago
If all problems are emotional, then just the very act of a shared commitment, reccomended by an "expert" (e.g. to having "relationship meetings") may be enough to solve them, regardless of content.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]