5 ms·

Teaching people that being "rich" is not a goal would help in the progress. The goal is enough: a point when one still yearns, so they can progress, but they do

by pmlnr 6y ago

Teaching people that being "rich" is not a goal would help in the progress. The goal is enough: a point when one still yearns, so they can progress, but they don't suffer or live in fear for losing warmth, shelter, food, etc. But this idea seems far from the majority of the US mindset, and it's polluting many parts of the world as well.

marshmallow_12 6y ago
The voice of reason right until the end. The world has problems. Lets blame the US. Even if you are right, it will help nobody to say so.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  not that i don't think your points aren't good just that finger-pointing is a bit destructive.
Joeboy 6y ago
"Shelter" sounds like a modest expectation, but at least for me, and a lot of other people, a decent level of "shelter" requires you to be pretty well off. The average house here in the UK costs £~305k, so a mortgage on that requires like 30k deposit + 60k income, which means being a top 10% earner. I've no real aspiration to be "rich" in a superyacht sense, but I would like to be able to remain in my home city and own a modest flat, which requires me to be rich.
- leppr 6y ago
  Good point. In most modern cities, the only individualistic solution to escape eternal rent-slavery (forgive the strong word) is to become rich. A collectivist solution would be to coordinate with other citizens to abolish the building/zoning restrictions and savings devaluation enforced by local and national governments, that cause the constant real estate price inflation in the first place.
  - satyrnein 6y ago
    Unfortunately, the "other citizens" are the ones who want the zoning restrictions.
    - leppr 6y ago
      Since most governance schemes favor entrenched players, there's a natural tendency for policies resulting in pyramid schemes to emerge. The first step is to educate enough people around this issue, so that some opportunistic countries/cities can become competitive at attracting residents using fairer policies as a differentiator.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  The solution is simple: build more houses to increase supply. It needs to be said: there is a drastic shortage of decent housing in the UK. The cost of building a new house is approaching less than half the final sale price (if not even less) simply due to pressure from scarcity. Why aren’t people building as many new houses as there’s clearly demand? Numerous factors: greenbelt laws, height restrictions, “Right to light”, NIMBYism, etc. I don’t believe I’ve seen either major political party advance a policy of making it easier to build new houses - or tall tower blocks (the nice kind, not the 1960s council flag blocks), I suspect because it would result in immediate uproar from the Daily Mail-reading types who can’t bear to see their house-values fall (I think Sunday Observer types would be a bit miffed too, if not about house prices then certainly the ecological impact: having lived in multiple countries in my life I noticed the “rural-rights” types that advocate preserving hedgerows and rambling access have a considerably larger influence in UK politics compared to other countries).
  - NiceWayToDoIT 6y ago
    It is not so simple, let me give example, in UK during pandemic prices hyped by 30%. Reason is, rich own land and properties, but they own them on account of debt and cash flow. Some people have more than 100,000 properties in their portfolio, and they relying on cash flow. So, if anything disturbing happen let say pandemic kills lots of people (or they lose their jobs) and no one rents anymore, then next thing that will collapse are banks, as Banks cannot get their money back. Next thing is government collapsing. In order to maintain this structure, or protect it from collapsing, during each economic crises government pumps more money (subsidies, interest free money, free money) to the rich. What they do? They buy even more properties. So, basically on account of the blackmail-standoff-ransom-situation, they siphoning all the properties from the market. Regardless how many properties you make in UK they will buy them all, as they buying them with additional debt - and in that way protecting their renting business. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  Uk house prices are crazy enough to make people want to emigrate. But now with remote work you could live in a cheaper UK location but also consider another country. Maybe even just rent so cheaply you can save and invest in other things.
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
Desire for superiority over other people is instinctive. I don’t believe it’s something that can be “taught” out of existence.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  citation needed

by pmlnr 6y ago

marshmallow_12 6y ago

The voice of reason right until the end. The world has problems. Lets blame the US. Even if you are right, it will help nobody to say so.

marshmallow_12 6y ago
not that i don't think your points aren't good just that finger-pointing is a bit destructive.

Joeboy 6y ago

"Shelter" sounds like a modest expectation, but at least for me, and a lot of other people, a decent level of "shelter" requires you to be pretty well off. The average house here in the UK costs £~305k, so a mortgage on that requires like 30k deposit + 60k income, which means being a top 10% earner. I've no real aspiration to be "rich" in a superyacht sense, but I would like to be able to remain in my home city and own a modest flat, which requires me to be rich.

leppr 6y ago
Good point. In most modern cities, the only individualistic solution to escape eternal rent-slavery (forgive the strong word) is to become rich. A collectivist solution would be to coordinate with other citizens to abolish the building/zoning restrictions and savings devaluation enforced by local and national governments, that cause the constant real estate price inflation in the first place.
- satyrnein 6y ago
  Unfortunately, the "other citizens" are the ones who want the zoning restrictions.
  - leppr 6y ago
    Since most governance schemes favor entrenched players, there's a natural tendency for policies resulting in pyramid schemes to emerge. The first step is to educate enough people around this issue, so that some opportunistic countries/cities can become competitive at attracting residents using fairer policies as a differentiator.
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
The solution is simple: build more houses to increase supply. It needs to be said: there is a drastic shortage of decent housing in the UK. The cost of building a new house is approaching less than half the final sale price (if not even less) simply due to pressure from scarcity. Why aren’t people building as many new houses as there’s clearly demand? Numerous factors: greenbelt laws, height restrictions, “Right to light”, NIMBYism, etc. I don’t believe I’ve seen either major political party advance a policy of making it easier to build new houses - or tall tower blocks (the nice kind, not the 1960s council flag blocks), I suspect because it would result in immediate uproar from the Daily Mail-reading types who can’t bear to see their house-values fall (I think Sunday Observer types would be a bit miffed too, if not about house prices then certainly the ecological impact: having lived in multiple countries in my life I noticed the “rural-rights” types that advocate preserving hedgerows and rambling access have a considerably larger influence in UK politics compared to other countries).
- NiceWayToDoIT 6y ago
  It is not so simple, let me give example, in UK during pandemic prices hyped by 30%. Reason is, rich own land and properties, but they own them on account of debt and cash flow. Some people have more than 100,000 properties in their portfolio, and they relying on cash flow. So, if anything disturbing happen let say pandemic kills lots of people (or they lose their jobs) and no one rents anymore, then next thing that will collapse are banks, as Banks cannot get their money back. Next thing is government collapsing. In order to maintain this structure, or protect it from collapsing, during each economic crises government pumps more money (subsidies, interest free money, free money) to the rich. What they do? They buy even more properties. So, basically on account of the blackmail-standoff-ransom-situation, they siphoning all the properties from the market. Regardless how many properties you make in UK they will buy them all, as they buying them with additional debt - and in that way protecting their renting business. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
quickthrower2 6y ago
Uk house prices are crazy enough to make people want to emigrate. But now with remote work you could live in a cheaper UK location but also consider another country. Maybe even just rent so cheaply you can save and invest in other things.

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

Desire for superiority over other people is instinctive. I don’t believe it’s something that can be “taught” out of existence.

eeZah7Ux 6y ago
citation needed