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There is a long tradition in academic philosophy of using this model of teleportation as a device for investigating questions of personal identity. Derek Parfit

There is a long tradition in academic philosophy of using this model of teleportation as a device for investigating questions of personal identity. Derek Parfit's 'Reasons and Persons' is probably the best-known treatment [1]. I think there are good reasons to believe this is not generally how the writers of Star Trek thought the transporters in their stories were supposed to work, but they weren't always perfectly consistent on the subject. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasons_and_persons#Personal_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasons_and_persons#Personal_i...

skissane 6y ago
> I think there are good reasons to believe this is not generally how the writers of Star Trek thought the transporters in their stories were supposed to work, but they weren't always perfectly consistent on the subject. I remember one episode of one of the TV shows (I forget which one), they used a transporter to transport a bomb off the ship, so it detonated in space instead. If transportation is converting matter to information, transmitting the information, then reassembling it at the other end, why would one bother doing that to a bomb? Just do the first step of converting matter to information, and then instead of transmitting it and reassembling it somewhere else, just send the information to /dev/null (I think if someone was designing a bomb, in a situation in which such technology was known, they'd try to design it so that any attempt to dematerialise/transport it would detonate it instantly.)
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Furthermore, why not use the transporter as a weapon, creating bombs next to / inside enemy ships
  - JProthero 6y ago
    You might be on to something there: https://youtu.be/AtKnsxlUWr8?t=44 https://youtu.be/AtKnsxlUWr8?t=44
marshmallow_12 6y ago
i fail to see how this is an important philosophic subject, being based on absolutely no scientific data.
- JProthero 6y ago
  In the philosophy of personal identity, teleportation is an intellectual contrivance only intended to help clarify thinking about personal identity. Another version of the same concept is the 'Swampman' thought experiment [1], which is also obviously not intended to be taken seriously as a scientific possibility. Most thought experiments in the philosophy of mind and personal identity have this character, e.g. Mary's Room [2], the China Brain [3], Philosophical Zombies [4], the Chinese Room [5] etc. Thought experiments are often not intended to be carried out empirically (Schrodinger did not poison cats, Maxwell could not summon demons, Einstein did not throw people off buildings or construct clocks made of light, and so on), but they are nevertheless useful tools that can lead to insights about the real world, or serve as inspiration for actual experiments (Bell tests [6] are perhaps a good example of this, as they derive directly from Ian Bell's careful consideration of a famous thought experiment of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen [7]). Quantum teleportation is also of course a real phenomenon [8], and it does have some of the same properties as the imaginary teleportation device that Parfit and other philosophers consider in their work, albeit that it has only been demonstrated at the atomic scale for now. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampman [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_Podolsky_Rosen_Paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_Podolsky_Rosen_Parado... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    but all the scientists you mentioned engaged in thought experiments that actually had real life parallels. Philosophising about personal identity, is completely irrelevant to us since it isn't, and never will be, possible to switch bodies.

skissane 6y ago

> I think there are good reasons to believe this is not generally how the writers of Star Trek thought the transporters in their stories were supposed to work, but they weren't always perfectly consistent on the subject. I remember one episode of one of the TV shows (I forget which one), they used a transporter to transport a bomb off the ship, so it detonated in space instead. If transportation is converting matter to information, transmitting the information, then reassembling it at the other end, why would one bother doing that to a bomb? Just do the first step of converting matter to information, and then instead of transmitting it and reassembling it somewhere else, just send the information to /dev/null (I think if someone was designing a bomb, in a situation in which such technology was known, they'd try to design it so that any attempt to dematerialise/transport it would detonate it instantly.)

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Furthermore, why not use the transporter as a weapon, creating bombs next to / inside enemy ships
- JProthero 6y ago
  You might be on to something there: https://youtu.be/AtKnsxlUWr8?t=44 https://youtu.be/AtKnsxlUWr8?t=44

marshmallow_12 6y ago

i fail to see how this is an important philosophic subject, being based on absolutely no scientific data.

JProthero 6y ago
In the philosophy of personal identity, teleportation is an intellectual contrivance only intended to help clarify thinking about personal identity. Another version of the same concept is the 'Swampman' thought experiment [1], which is also obviously not intended to be taken seriously as a scientific possibility. Most thought experiments in the philosophy of mind and personal identity have this character, e.g. Mary's Room [2], the China Brain [3], Philosophical Zombies [4], the Chinese Room [5] etc. Thought experiments are often not intended to be carried out empirically (Schrodinger did not poison cats, Maxwell could not summon demons, Einstein did not throw people off buildings or construct clocks made of light, and so on), but they are nevertheless useful tools that can lead to insights about the real world, or serve as inspiration for actual experiments (Bell tests [6] are perhaps a good example of this, as they derive directly from Ian Bell's careful consideration of a famous thought experiment of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen [7]). Quantum teleportation is also of course a real phenomenon [8], and it does have some of the same properties as the imaginary teleportation device that Parfit and other philosophers consider in their work, albeit that it has only been demonstrated at the atomic scale for now. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampman [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_Podolsky_Rosen_Paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_Podolsky_Rosen_Parado... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  but all the scientists you mentioned engaged in thought experiments that actually had real life parallels. Philosophising about personal identity, is completely irrelevant to us since it isn't, and never will be, possible to switch bodies.