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It wasn't even a belief in the first place. I read a dozen books on post-Nixon US politics. The amount of allegations from both sides of US politics that the

It wasn't even a belief in the first place. I read a dozen books on post-Nixon US politics. The amount of allegations from both sides of US politics that the other benefitted in the personal capacity from trade with China is staggering. At least some of them must be genuine. It comes to a very simple explanation that communists have indeed been influencing US politics for decades with very crude means, and that they were successful in that. This is an embarrassing admission US has to do first before any recovery can be started.

refenestrator 6y ago
The very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?
- baybal2 6y ago
  In other words, yes. I avoided stating it this bluntly for it being almost a cartoon trope. But... but one can't believe into any other explanation as any much credible. Do hundreds of US political insiders lobby for China in one voice just for nothing? You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. American legal system prohibits jailing people for anything but being caught red handed in cases of political corruption. I have no idea what you can do about that without doing political persecution, but on other hand if you leave it be it will keep being exploited like hell.
  - chrischen 6y ago
    > You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. Lol you’ve just described capitalists.
    - krona 6y ago
      I think acquiring and consuming resources amorally predates capitalism by a few billion years.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        Indeed it does, doing it in a system that allows the economic elite to direct the government into geopolitical disaster because they are largely unconcerned with the common good of their nation is really quite unique to capitalism.
    - Proziam 6y ago
      Actually, he just described people. Communist regimes have the exact same issues with corruption and greed. Capitalism vs Communism is a useless debate if the will isn't there to hold the corrupt accountable and ensure that the average citizen is empowered (with said power secured both physically and legally.)
  - refenestrator 6y ago
    What about water flouridation? Stealing our essence or no?
- cambalache 6y ago
  OP is a sharp, highly perceptive individual. Commies took American post-Nixon politics, what other than the total red dominion could explain: Invasion to Grenada Invasion to Panama Invasion to Iraq Bombing of Serbia Bombing of Somalia Invasion of Iraq Invasion of Afghanistan Bombing of Libya Trickle-down economics Iran-Contra 24 years of Republican presidents out of the last 40 years. This is the kind of high-quality comment that this site is well known for.
  - narism 6y ago
    Nothing quite so dramatic. The US political system is rife with bribery/bribery-adjacent (ex: lobbying) activity and they are saying both sides have been influenced by this. For examples, see the 1996 Clinton campaign finance investigations and donations to Jeb Bush’s Super PAC. There is likely a lot more out there that we don’t know about hidden through donations funneled through non-profits.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      Probably you are answering to a different comment, otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. In no shape, way or form have communists managed the internal or external American policy in the last 40 years, if ever.
AlexCoventry 6y ago
It'd be nice to see some supporting citations.
jjcc 6y ago
I just happened to read a new article on "Moon Of Alabama". Then I realize there must be some debate on HN. I'm not disappointed Here's what lead me to come back to HN: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/03/is-china-hacking-random-servers-to-put-itself-into-a-bad-light.html#comments https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/03/is-china-hacking-rando...
sudosysgen 6y ago
This is pretty insane mental gymnastics to rationalize the free market taking control of the US political apparatus as communism. Like, actually impressive. It has nothing to do with infiltration or influence. It's simply the basic structure of the American political system that, since its very founding (who was able to vote?) oriented the government into the facilitation of profit above all else. That is actually the realization the US has to do, but it seems somehow even more embarrassing than the conclusion that the US government is infiltrated by commies, for some odd reason.

refenestrator 6y ago

The very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?

baybal2 6y ago
In other words, yes. I avoided stating it this bluntly for it being almost a cartoon trope. But... but one can't believe into any other explanation as any much credible. Do hundreds of US political insiders lobby for China in one voice just for nothing? You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. American legal system prohibits jailing people for anything but being caught red handed in cases of political corruption. I have no idea what you can do about that without doing political persecution, but on other hand if you leave it be it will keep being exploited like hell.
- chrischen 6y ago
  > You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. Lol you’ve just described capitalists.
  - krona 6y ago
    I think acquiring and consuming resources amorally predates capitalism by a few billion years.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      Indeed it does, doing it in a system that allows the economic elite to direct the government into geopolitical disaster because they are largely unconcerned with the common good of their nation is really quite unique to capitalism.
  - Proziam 6y ago
    Actually, he just described people. Communist regimes have the exact same issues with corruption and greed. Capitalism vs Communism is a useless debate if the will isn't there to hold the corrupt accountable and ensure that the average citizen is empowered (with said power secured both physically and legally.)
- refenestrator 6y ago
  What about water flouridation? Stealing our essence or no?
cambalache 6y ago
OP is a sharp, highly perceptive individual. Commies took American post-Nixon politics, what other than the total red dominion could explain: Invasion to Grenada Invasion to Panama Invasion to Iraq Bombing of Serbia Bombing of Somalia Invasion of Iraq Invasion of Afghanistan Bombing of Libya Trickle-down economics Iran-Contra 24 years of Republican presidents out of the last 40 years. This is the kind of high-quality comment that this site is well known for.
- narism 6y ago
  Nothing quite so dramatic. The US political system is rife with bribery/bribery-adjacent (ex: lobbying) activity and they are saying both sides have been influenced by this. For examples, see the 1996 Clinton campaign finance investigations and donations to Jeb Bush’s Super PAC. There is likely a lot more out there that we don’t know about hidden through donations funneled through non-profits.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Probably you are answering to a different comment, otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. In no shape, way or form have communists managed the internal or external American policy in the last 40 years, if ever.

AlexCoventry 6y ago

It'd be nice to see some supporting citations.

jjcc 6y ago

I just happened to read a new article on "Moon Of Alabama". Then I realize there must be some debate on HN. I'm not disappointed Here's what lead me to come back to HN: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/03/is-china-hacking-random-servers-to-put-itself-into-a-bad-light.html#comments https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/03/is-china-hacking-rando...

sudosysgen 6y ago

This is pretty insane mental gymnastics to rationalize the free market taking control of the US political apparatus as communism. Like, actually impressive. It has nothing to do with infiltration or influence. It's simply the basic structure of the American political system that, since its very founding (who was able to vote?) oriented the government into the facilitation of profit above all else. That is actually the realization the US has to do, but it seems somehow even more embarrassing than the conclusion that the US government is infiltrated by commies, for some odd reason.