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The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market. The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Why our government let that happe
by bushbaba 6y ago
The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market.
The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same.
Why our government let that happen. Letting so much business leave to the CCP will be one of the greatest failings of the us government.
- refenestrator 6y agoBecause we're arrogant. We thought that if we go down the road we went down, they'd naturally settle into their proper place as manufactory for the West without wanting a seat at the table. Now they're a global power and, gasp, they act like one. Nobody could have seen this coming.
- kingkawn 6y agoI don’t think anyone was thinking it through at all. We just needed cheap goods to placate our population and they needed the jobs to placate theirs.
- cyberpunk 6y agoI’d recommend reading the 100 year marathon and watching the latest Curtis if you’re curious to learn more on that. :)
- kelnos 6y agoThe US also believed that giving China an example of "the good way" via access to the US markets would cause them to open up and allow access in kind. Turned out that was a pretty naive belief.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- baybal2 6y agoIt wasn't even a belief in the first place. I read a dozen books on post-Nixon US politics. The amount of allegations from both sides of US politics that the other benefitted in the personal capacity from trade with China is staggering. At least some of them must be genuine. It comes to a very simple explanation that communists have indeed been influencing US politics for decades with very crude means, and that they were successful in that. This is an embarrassing admission US has to do first before any recovery can be started.
- refenestrator 6y agoThe very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?
- baybal2 6y agoIn other words, yes. I avoided stating it this bluntly for it being almost a cartoon trope. But... but one can't believe into any other explanation as any much credible. Do hundreds of US political insiders lobby for China in one voice just for nothing? You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. American legal system prohibits jailing people for anything but being caught red handed in cases of political corruption. I have no idea what you can do about that without doing political persecution, but on other hand if you leave it be it will keep being exploited like hell.
- chrischen 6y ago> You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. Lol you’ve just described capitalists.
- krona 6y agoI think acquiring and consuming resources amorally predates capitalism by a few billion years.
- sudosysgen 6y agoIndeed it does, doing it in a system that allows the economic elite to direct the government into geopolitical disaster because they are largely unconcerned with the common good of their nation is really quite unique to capitalism.
- Proziam 6y agoActually, he just described people. Communist regimes have the exact same issues with corruption and greed. Capitalism vs Communism is a useless debate if the will isn't there to hold the corrupt accountable and ensure that the average citizen is empowered (with said power secured both physically and legally.)
- nbardy 6y agoThe US never believed this, the politicians told this story so they could get richer off trade deals and cheap labor. Anyone who was critically thinking saw this coming a long way out.
- mc32 6y agoRoss Perot knew the deal. Bush, Clinton and everyone else mocked him, critically, the media. The fourth estate; yeah, right! They don’t give a lick. They push whatever agenda is on tap. Trade Agreements, Gulf War II, etc.
- sudosysgen 6y agoIt was also a ploy to cement the fragmentation of the Socialist bloc and precipitate the decline of the Soviet Union. No one with half a brain thought anything else would happen. Even if China was a liberal democracy, this would still happen. It was just arrogant and short term thinking.
- chrisjharris 6y agoYou might be right, you might be wrong, but it would be nice if you could acknowledge that any argument about what people were thinking (rather than doing) is a shaky one and hard to state with any certainty. Bad outcomes can arise as easily from ill-conceived idealism as bad intent.
- elipsey 6y agoThis. It's a pernicious temptation to infer motive, or make hostile generalizations about groups we disagree with, but this makes it impossible to cooperate or engage in good faith debate.
- tim333 6y agoThey were also trending towards being a relatively benevolent modern country under Deng Xiaoping when many restrictions were dropped. It's a bit unfortunate that under the present guy they seem to be returning to a Maoist dictatorship and I guess will stay that way for quite a while.
- wayneftw 6y agoBecause the people who own and control everything would rather build up a government like the CCP so they can better control the "useless eaters" (as Henry Kissinger put it). "Made in China" is exactly the type of curse that the global elite like to put on people. It's plain as day what's coming next and yet, everybody has just accepted it since the 70s. China will be the world superpower to replace the US and apparently we're all fine with that.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y agoChina acts in China's interests. They as an institution are acting no different than they have throughout the dozens of empires before it. It's basically Ming 2.0.
- Aunche 6y agoThe US has a significantly larger consumer market. A lot of people would complain if they were unable to import cheap goods from China.
- mc32 6y agoYeah but it means they don’t get paid as much either as there is no wage pressure at the bottom. You can’t have $5 T-shirts and also a $15 minimum wage.
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoYou can’t have $5 T-shirts and also a $15 minimum wage and low unemployment. You can have $5 T-shirts and a $15 minimum wage and no jobs, but nobody actually wants that outcome.
- Aunche 6y agoThe bottom earners aren't the people driving the consumer market. That's why they tend to advocate for protectionism.
- trhway 6y ago>You can’t have $5 T-shirts and also a $15 minimum wage. with $15 minimum wage there is no need for $5 T-shirts.
- mc32 6y agoI agree!
- dgellow 6y agoA few speculative ideas/thoughts: - The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. For half a century US companies improved their efficiency/competitiveness by moving their process to China. They now have too many dependencies in the form of Chinese manufacturing and development capabilities and do not have the skills/knowledge/talents/infrastructure in the US. Because of this China can dictate their rules with zero pressure (though India and other countries will surely be a difficult competition at some point, or maybe already are). - China owns more than 1 trillion of US debt. In the past the country bought a massive amount of US debt to inflate USD vs RMB and boost their own economy. Currently China has no reasons to sell their reserve as that would impact their economy negatively. If the US blocks them they may start massively selling US debt, which would impact USD and the US economy.
- baybal2 6y ago> The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. No, it really isn't. The thing the US is indeed does very little for an economy of its size. Washington can slam fist on the table, and US industry will be out of China by tomorrow, without much impact at home besides no iToys this season, and few percents off its stock market. Lack of consumer goods would of course be upsetting, but people wouldn't die from lack of them.
- vkou 6y agoYes, it does. Run a political campaign on 'All the stuff you buy? I'm going to make it cost more,' and you will be slaughtered at the polls. People barely making ends meet aren't very interested in those kinds of political statements. You could, of course, try to lie to them about what the consequences of your policies are going to be.
- baybal2 6y agoYou are correct, and this is America's, and West's predicament. If you can't do this, you can't do this. And you certainly wouldn't be able to do even more painful things which are truly needed for the West to have any chance to put the genie back into the bottle. China, and Russia have effectively conditioned the NATO countries over the decades into "self-beneficial inaction." Now, seeing words like yours proves their strategy worked.
- nullifidian 6y agoBecause the US in large part is ruled in the interest of the international capital and the ruling elites, not in the interest of its general populace. It was more profitable to deindustrialize the US.
- da_big_ghey 6y agoWe need blocking foreign direct investment for America by any Chinese from 20 years previous. Today we need grand incentives for tax reducing to make repurchasing of China investments in America. No Chinese should have owningship on any asset of America. Chinese is hostile power to good things all in world. Need containment to until collapse of government it have now.
- freeflight 6y agoWhy not just ban Chinese from entering the US at all, just like in the good old times [0]? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
- da_big_ghey 6y agoNo, is terrible plans. We ought make open our border for any Chinese who desier for come to America. No person ought forced to be in such places as China. And also we are wanting good people desirous for liberty.
- yorwba 6y agoChina, generally speaking, gives US companies full access to the Chinese market. When that is not the case, it's usually in sectors where Chinese companies don't have full access to the Chinese market either. If Facebook or Google were Chinese companies but hosted the same content, do you think they'd be allowed inside the Great Firewall? Actually, we don't need to guess: when Qihoo 360 tried to provide censored access to Western social media, they were quickly shut down: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/12/chinese-app-that-let-users-access-google-facebook-has-disappeared.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/12/chinese-app-that-let-users-a... Western companies who don't operate in China aren't shut out because the government treats them differently. On the contrary, the government would treat them like Chinese companies, and some aren't willing to put up with that. Chinese companies don't get a choice.
- bassman9000 6y agoWorse. Up until recently (2020), Chinese listed companies routinely failed to meet oversight rules, with Nasdaq's connivance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_Foreign_Companies_Accountable_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_Foreign_Companies_Acco... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EQUITABLE_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EQUITABLE_Act https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-03/China-slams-new-audit-law-targeting-Chinese-companies-in-the-U-S--VVjaXGMKze/index.html https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-03/China-slams-new-audit-... https://journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/CBLR/announcement/view/247 https://journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/CBLR/announc... In 2015, the SEC reached a settlement with the Chinese branches of the Big Four accounting firms on non-compliance with the PCAOB’s regulation, and the administrative proceeding against these firms was dismissed for four years.[15] Now, four years have passed, and the conflict of regulation remains unresolved.
- BelenusMordred 6y ago> The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Many of the biggest companies in China are from the US. This is a Fox News tier talking point that gets mindlessly parroted without any logical scrutiny. Hundreds of billions are earnt yearly by US domiciled companies. Google alone brings in $50 billion from China to the US and they have been "banned" there for years. Some others: Nike, Intel, GM, Walmart, Coke, KFC, McDonalds, Proctor and Gamble, Qualcom, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, 3M, Texas Instruments, Starbucks, Nvidia, AMD, the list goes on and is extensive. Starbucks has around 70% marketshare. Have any of the people commenting here even step foot inside China before making comments like "US companies can't compete there"? Who exactly in the us(sic) is locked out again? Garbage social media companies like Facebook and Twitter? Who cares? The world in general needs less of them.