5 ms·

> Mocking teenage girls and portraying their interest as worthless can further reinforce ideas that things created for women and by women are unimportant. Shou

> Mocking teenage girls and portraying their interest as worthless can further reinforce ideas that things created for women and by women are unimportant. Should we instead believe that Twilight, One Direction and Taylor Swift are important? That they aren't doesn't seem like a discriminatory judgement, just an acknowledgment that things that are important to teen girls (or boys) aren't necessarily worthy of the rest of our attention. > But while some girls may be strongly affected by the demeaning of their interests, Jensen says others will continue to love what they love and fangirl despite the judgment. "Fortunately, girls are pretty badass and do their own thing anyway." This is the healthy response, and not coincidentally, a typical and prerequisite attitude of the common nerd.

macintux 6y ago
Something that teen boys adore can be quietly ignored by the rest of the world. Something that teen girls adore must be widely mocked. Seems obvious to me in hindsight. Cultural misogyny runs deep.
- SuoDuanDao 6y ago
  Generally, we tend to condemn the fandom itself when teen boys like something. With girls the popular thing is considered a corrupting influence. Unless it's Ayn Rand novels. I think that might be because some adults also like Ayn Rand.
- volak 6y ago
  Something equivalent that teen boys "adore" like girls and boy bands and twilight? I can only think of video games.. perhaps anime, possibly comics. All of which are widely mocked. Its not that girl's interests are taboo - its that when any gender gets too wrapped up in something that it becomes part of their identity society should mock to encourage adoption of other interests.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    > video games.. perhaps anime, possibly comics. Video games, anime and comics (and comic-book movies) are not widely mocked. They're wildly popular. Getting too far into anime and becoming a "weeb" is widely mocked. A specific video-game, comic or anime series might be mocked, but in the general sense all these things are well liked.
    - snovv_crash 6y ago
      I think you're just revealing your bubble. Depending on the crowd anime and video games can be the thing only losers partake in, whereas high school romcoms and riding horses are considered normal.
      - wayneftw 6y ago
        I suppose anyone can say "Your argument is coming from your bubble" without saying much else. It's not a great argument. But I think I'd like to hear why you think your read on the situation is better than mine. Here's why I think I've got a good read on this: I'm in my 40s and I have friends, family and acquaintances from all walks of life. I specifically live my life so that I don't have a bubble or a lot of dependencies. I just hang out a lot online and I'm reporting what I see. My 10 year old niece loves anime and video games. I have some friends in their 20s and 30s who love anime and video games. I hang out on Twitch, Reddit or 9gag and almost exclusively peruse these sites using the "popular" firehose - I always see lots and lots of references to anime, video games and comic-book movies. Actual comics/comic-books do not come up quite as often - but cos-play does. I don't really like anime. I enjoyed some classics when I younger - titles such as Akira, Ninja Scroll and uhhh Blood: The Last Vampire. I play one video game: Rocket League. Other than that, I'm not what you'd call a "gamer". On Twitch though, I definitely see high school kids with tons of viewers playing all sorts of games and talking about anime. What's your experience?
        snovv_crash 6y ago
        Twitch, 9gag and Reddit are most definitely a bubble. I mean, there are even the jokes in the various subreddits about how they'd never get someone with that belief system here, or on 9gag about how there aren't actually any women. I'm in my 30s and for me the biggest grounding point for what is and isn't my bubble has come from online dating. Let me just say, being into Star Trek, owning a 3D printer and knowing your way around even the basics of a shell terminal are all, even individually, something only a small fraction of the population would identify with. These are pretty independent things, however, inside of these there is quite a large overlap. Hence, it's a subculture and the modern world which lets us choose our human interactions based on our interests automatically turns that into a bubble. I believe a similar thing happens to those who descend into the redpill movement, or join the military, or get involved in Twitter activism, or do mountaineering, or base jumping, or Instagram fitness, or eat at a different restaurant every night, or so many other things. Everybody thinks their own worldview represents a much larger population cross section than it actually does. And everyone can find someone with a more extreme perspective, making them feel moderate in their position.
- hirundo 6y ago
  Is it that girl stuff is more widely mocked, or that girls are more sensitive to it? Boys likely generate and receive more mockery and find it easier to shrug off. A boy can be relentlessly mocked for loving Warhammer, but just not care as much as a girl mocked for loving Ariana Grande. This would be similar to the finding that while men tend to be harassed on social media at least as much as women, women are outraged more by it. Is it more important to change things so that the reaction is equal, or the provocation?
  - macintux 6y ago
    > This would be similar to the finding that while men tend to be harassed on social media at least as much as women... You lost me there. Setting aside the current political nightmare the U.S. finds itself in, men are not generally subject to death and rape threats like women online. The clothes men wear on TV are not subject to the same constant criticism that women wear. Men who vent frustration on Twitter are not forced to bow out of contention for a Cabinet position like women are.
    - cableshaft 6y ago
      Ever played a video game online? The death threats I've received from that alone probably number in the dozens by now, for the crime of not playing perfectly in a match. I've also been told several times that I should be killed or to kill myself because someone didn't enjoy a video game I made and put out into the world (for free). While I'd agree with your premise overall, online anonymity allows for many a death threat to be thrown out there often and casually by jackasses and kids who don't care how they hurt others.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      All true; the exceptions are the rarity. It is also true that men are more likely to commit suicide, and that suicide is twice as common in the US as murder and non-negligent manslaughter. And also true that the ratio reverses for attempts. I don’t have solutions, FWIW; unlike the Douglas Adams quip about a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth [0], I have no idea how to make the world a good and happy place. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/79195-and-then-one-thursday-nearly-two-thousand-years-after-one https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/79195-and-then-one-thursday...
- njharman 6y ago
  > Something that teen boys adore can be quietly ignored Could be, but aren't. You're having selection bias, or selective memory, or simply ignoring / applying double standard. As others pointed out, many of the things teen boys like are mocked. some is actively censored.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- SubjectToChange 6y ago
  The language against things like video games, skateboarding, or metal was far more charged than it ever was towards things like twilight or one direction. It seems like girls are just more sensitive to the mockery. Maybe we should keep that in mind and let them have their fun. But it's hard to see how they subject to more criticism than teenage boys are.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 6y ago
> teen girls (or boys) Media targeted at teen boys gets far more credibility and is treated as far more important.
- amarant 6y ago
  Have you ever heard of calls to outright ban Twilight or boy bands though? No? How about violent video games that teenage boys can't get enough of? I don't think this is a gender issue, it's just that teenagers, regardless of gender, tend to have poor taste in just about everything.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/apr/15/stephenie-meyer-most-challenged-authors https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/apr/15/stephenie-meye... "The Twilight books are among the books that have received most calls to be banned from from US libraries"

macintux 6y ago

Something that teen boys adore can be quietly ignored by the rest of the world. Something that teen girls adore must be widely mocked. Seems obvious to me in hindsight. Cultural misogyny runs deep.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago
Generally, we tend to condemn the fandom itself when teen boys like something. With girls the popular thing is considered a corrupting influence. Unless it's Ayn Rand novels. I think that might be because some adults also like Ayn Rand.
volak 6y ago
Something equivalent that teen boys "adore" like girls and boy bands and twilight? I can only think of video games.. perhaps anime, possibly comics. All of which are widely mocked. Its not that girl's interests are taboo - its that when any gender gets too wrapped up in something that it becomes part of their identity society should mock to encourage adoption of other interests.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  > video games.. perhaps anime, possibly comics. Video games, anime and comics (and comic-book movies) are not widely mocked. They're wildly popular. Getting too far into anime and becoming a "weeb" is widely mocked. A specific video-game, comic or anime series might be mocked, but in the general sense all these things are well liked.
  - snovv_crash 6y ago
    I think you're just revealing your bubble. Depending on the crowd anime and video games can be the thing only losers partake in, whereas high school romcoms and riding horses are considered normal.
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      I suppose anyone can say "Your argument is coming from your bubble" without saying much else. It's not a great argument. But I think I'd like to hear why you think your read on the situation is better than mine. Here's why I think I've got a good read on this: I'm in my 40s and I have friends, family and acquaintances from all walks of life. I specifically live my life so that I don't have a bubble or a lot of dependencies. I just hang out a lot online and I'm reporting what I see. My 10 year old niece loves anime and video games. I have some friends in their 20s and 30s who love anime and video games. I hang out on Twitch, Reddit or 9gag and almost exclusively peruse these sites using the "popular" firehose - I always see lots and lots of references to anime, video games and comic-book movies. Actual comics/comic-books do not come up quite as often - but cos-play does. I don't really like anime. I enjoyed some classics when I younger - titles such as Akira, Ninja Scroll and uhhh Blood: The Last Vampire. I play one video game: Rocket League. Other than that, I'm not what you'd call a "gamer". On Twitch though, I definitely see high school kids with tons of viewers playing all sorts of games and talking about anime. What's your experience?
      - snovv_crash 6y ago
        Twitch, 9gag and Reddit are most definitely a bubble. I mean, there are even the jokes in the various subreddits about how they'd never get someone with that belief system here, or on 9gag about how there aren't actually any women. I'm in my 30s and for me the biggest grounding point for what is and isn't my bubble has come from online dating. Let me just say, being into Star Trek, owning a 3D printer and knowing your way around even the basics of a shell terminal are all, even individually, something only a small fraction of the population would identify with. These are pretty independent things, however, inside of these there is quite a large overlap. Hence, it's a subculture and the modern world which lets us choose our human interactions based on our interests automatically turns that into a bubble. I believe a similar thing happens to those who descend into the redpill movement, or join the military, or get involved in Twitter activism, or do mountaineering, or base jumping, or Instagram fitness, or eat at a different restaurant every night, or so many other things. Everybody thinks their own worldview represents a much larger population cross section than it actually does. And everyone can find someone with a more extreme perspective, making them feel moderate in their position.
hirundo 6y ago
Is it that girl stuff is more widely mocked, or that girls are more sensitive to it? Boys likely generate and receive more mockery and find it easier to shrug off. A boy can be relentlessly mocked for loving Warhammer, but just not care as much as a girl mocked for loving Ariana Grande. This would be similar to the finding that while men tend to be harassed on social media at least as much as women, women are outraged more by it. Is it more important to change things so that the reaction is equal, or the provocation?
- macintux 6y ago
  > This would be similar to the finding that while men tend to be harassed on social media at least as much as women... You lost me there. Setting aside the current political nightmare the U.S. finds itself in, men are not generally subject to death and rape threats like women online. The clothes men wear on TV are not subject to the same constant criticism that women wear. Men who vent frustration on Twitter are not forced to bow out of contention for a Cabinet position like women are.
  - cableshaft 6y ago
    Ever played a video game online? The death threats I've received from that alone probably number in the dozens by now, for the crime of not playing perfectly in a match. I've also been told several times that I should be killed or to kill myself because someone didn't enjoy a video game I made and put out into the world (for free). While I'd agree with your premise overall, online anonymity allows for many a death threat to be thrown out there often and casually by jackasses and kids who don't care how they hurt others.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    All true; the exceptions are the rarity. It is also true that men are more likely to commit suicide, and that suicide is twice as common in the US as murder and non-negligent manslaughter. And also true that the ratio reverses for attempts. I don’t have solutions, FWIW; unlike the Douglas Adams quip about a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth [0], I have no idea how to make the world a good and happy place. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/79195-and-then-one-thursday-nearly-two-thousand-years-after-one https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/79195-and-then-one-thursday...
njharman 6y ago
> Something that teen boys adore can be quietly ignored Could be, but aren't. You're having selection bias, or selective memory, or simply ignoring / applying double standard. As others pointed out, many of the things teen boys like are mocked. some is actively censored.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SubjectToChange 6y ago
The language against things like video games, skateboarding, or metal was far more charged than it ever was towards things like twilight or one direction. It seems like girls are just more sensitive to the mockery. Maybe we should keep that in mind and let them have their fun. But it's hard to see how they subject to more criticism than teenage boys are.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pjc50 6y ago

> teen girls (or boys) Media targeted at teen boys gets far more credibility and is treated as far more important.

amarant 6y ago
Have you ever heard of calls to outright ban Twilight or boy bands though? No? How about violent video games that teenage boys can't get enough of? I don't think this is a gender issue, it's just that teenagers, regardless of gender, tend to have poor taste in just about everything.
- pjc50 6y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/apr/15/stephenie-meyer-most-challenged-authors https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/apr/15/stephenie-meye... "The Twilight books are among the books that have received most calls to be banned from from US libraries"