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My experience, PhD, 10 years postdoc, 10 years in startups (all in UK). I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature studen

My experience, PhD, 10 years postdoc, 10 years in startups (all in UK). I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit, I didn't need to get into any fights but I was willing to and I guess that comes out as confidence. As a postdoc I experienced several attempts at bullying, all worked out in my favour as I was sensible enough to join the union on my first day at work. I'd say that 90-95% of tenured academics are reasonable and often pleasant people, but high-achievement does also tend to attract a proportion of arseholes, and it's pretty random as to whether you come in to contact with them. How you handle it is up to you of course, I always fight back. The union is your friend. I find that startups are much more mellow places to work, finding an aggressive and unpleasant manager seems to be really quite exceptional; businesses tend to have "processes" in place in a way that academia just doesn't. An aggressive manager is quickly identified as a bad manager and then an ex-manager, they can't just claim "I'm really clever so suck it up" in the same way as in academe. I don't regret being a postdoc at all, I met a load of interesting people and worked on a lot of interesting projects. But it's not the whole of the world. I'd recommend exploration of the rest.

drill_bit 6y ago
Would you mind elaborating on the attempted bullying, how you dealt with it, and especially the role of the union? It could be useful information for others.
angrais 6y ago
10 years postdoc? Jeeze! What field were you in?
- throwaway98234 6y ago
  Maths. Yeah it's a while but I was having fun; at the end of each 2-3 year contract someone would say "would you be interested ..." and I'd take it up. While my work was pretty solid, it wasn't stellar and I didn't really publish enough to warrant a lecturer post, I realised that early on. I once met a woman who'd been doing non-standard analysis (which is both left-field and old-school) as a postdoc for years and I asked her if she saw a future in it, "not really, but while the music plays, I will dance".
jkhdigital 6y ago
> I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit I’m currently getting a PhD in my late 30s and the contrast is pretty funny sometimes... I keep asking my advisor if he regrets accepting me as a student lol
tabtab 6y ago
Re: "I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit, I didn't need to get into any fights but I was willing to and I guess that comes out as confidence." That's part of general "people skills". Many of us in STEM have a shortage of them, to be honest, and thus it's a "solution" that's not always easy to come by.

drill_bit 6y ago

Would you mind elaborating on the attempted bullying, how you dealt with it, and especially the role of the union? It could be useful information for others.

angrais 6y ago

10 years postdoc? Jeeze! What field were you in?

throwaway98234 6y ago
Maths. Yeah it's a while but I was having fun; at the end of each 2-3 year contract someone would say "would you be interested ..." and I'd take it up. While my work was pretty solid, it wasn't stellar and I didn't really publish enough to warrant a lecturer post, I realised that early on. I once met a woman who'd been doing non-standard analysis (which is both left-field and old-school) as a postdoc for years and I asked her if she saw a future in it, "not really, but while the music plays, I will dance".

jkhdigital 6y ago

> I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit I’m currently getting a PhD in my late 30s and the contrast is pretty funny sometimes... I keep asking my advisor if he regrets accepting me as a student lol

tabtab 6y ago

Re: "I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit, I didn't need to get into any fights but I was willing to and I guess that comes out as confidence." That's part of general "people skills". Many of us in STEM have a shortage of them, to be honest, and thus it's a "solution" that's not always easy to come by.