6 ms·

How do you fund that game prototype?

51 points by polm23 6y ago

yetihehe 6y ago
TL;DR: by having some free time, saved up funds (or "lottery" like kickstarter) and then just doing it. It's like with prototypes in any other area. You have idea, you either convince someone that it's good (typically with alredy working prototype, which precludes funding for prototypes) or use your own time/funds. I wish there could be other way. Maybe someday UBI will give us that.
- omniscient_oce 6y ago
  and be a white man apparently
  - puddingnomeat 6y ago
    what is that supposed to mean?
    - pmichaud 6y ago
      Read the article, it weirdly shoehorns the “white male” thing in there between “we used savings when possible and worked 75 hour weeks until we had something to show.”
      - angrais 6y ago
        How does that quote relate to being white?? Are you implying that non-white or female people can't save money and prototype an idea? I'm lost.
        omniscient_oce 6y ago
        Did you read the article? It quotes a Twitter conversation where a user asks for specifically white male experiences about creating a game studio / prototype. In general the answers basically amount to "I worked extremely hard, like 75hr weeks. Worked full time job whilst doing it; took multiple years before things started to work out" and then the article again tries to shoehorn the white male narrative to invalidate the answers. "other job / parents covering tuition / lack of dependents to support" are hardly exclusive to one gender or skin colour.
        imnotjames 6y ago
        The article starts off by saying they want to poll white men, because marginalized developers are struggling. It includes quotes from people such as this: > I think most local white dudes > don't think of a prototype as something they "funded". They > ”just made it” because they had > time, space and hardware. Generally, refers to hidden privilege throughout as subtext. If you're white and male you have more access to these kinds of opportunities, etc.
        Danieru 6y ago
        > kinds of opportunities The irony of course being "working for free on personal project after work" is not an opportunity. No doubt I am the exact class of "white dude" the article is talking about. My "funding" story is super boring. I worked on my game after a full day of work and after getting kids to bed. Spend savings from day job on commissioned art to make the game pretty, after a couple years you should have a game worth players time. If "having job" counts as privilege then sure it requires privilege, to the exact extent paying rent does too. PS: Occasionally commenters say "I program all day and have no energy to program at home". To which I can only warn: games programming is not what you want.
- faeyanpiraat 6y ago
  It might be controversial, but are you sure the current way is wrong? If you did not have to consider financial viability of a project, then more people would make more random stuff, which of course would produce more useful stuff, because the sample size increases, but there would also be more useless garbage. The question is whether and in what direction/magnitude the signal to noise ratio would change in the UBI scenario.
  - yetihehe 6y ago
    > It might be controversial, but are you sure the current way is wrong? No, current way is the most optimal I can think of in current situation. There are better ways, but not widely implementable currently. As for more garbage - yes, there would be more noise, but ALSO more signal (in my humble opinion). Signal in this case is useful things, which would be multiplied by usability, which is a net win for me.
tubularhells 6y ago
These privilege bashing articles are really cringe. At what point do we call this sexism/racism?
- angrais 6y ago
  Can you provide some examples from the article where sexism and racism occurs? I'm not seeing it
  - xu_ituairo 6y ago
    Up to you whether you think this is racist, but the article does invoke generalizations about race and gender through this quote here: > [To be honest] I think most local white dudes don't think of a prototype as something they "funded". They ”just made it” because they had time, space and hardware. Did their other job/parents covering tuition/lack of dependents to support/etc allow that? Yeah, but they can't see how it paid.” Personally, I imagine class or wealth has more to do with being able to bootstrap a game than skin color. And I imagine the barriers to entry have been lowering steeply.
    - ycombinete 6y ago
      For what it’s worth, that quote is from Dislekcia. He is a white developer from South Africa, where class/wealth is still extremely correlated with race, due to obvious historical reasons.
    - admissionsguy 6y ago
      It's all about race, just look at all those white dudes from Polish villages cranking out one prototype after another, swimming in the vast oceans of opportunity. Contrast that with the daily struggle any person of colour must endure to survive in, say, Seattle. Unfathomable.
      - elefanten 6y ago
        This is an underrated comment. The blindingly American framework in these discussions is in itself bigoted — it completely ignores countervailing evidence that comes from adopting a global perspective.
jimmySixDOF 6y ago
It's a Chicken-or-the-Egg problem. You need talent and resources to develop your Prototype but those talents and resources improve dramatically if there is a Prototype to play with. Catch 22. The Makers Dilemma. A microscale version of what Peter Thiel calls "Zero to One" - as in getting from nothing now to something new. The post is based on a great tweet thread full of inspiring stories of grit and determination; but as far as starting up anything in any person's garage anywhere, you may just as well be saying that water is wet.
- Danieru 6y ago
  > talent and resources to develop your Prototype Developing the required talent and resources is best done working a day job. Go work as a cog in a game making team, they'll cover your weaknesses and build your strengths. Attempting to make a game while also "making your skills" will result all early work being vastly interior to later work. If getting employment on a team is impossible that points to a bigger issue: you need at least 1 skill to get hired but you need 12+ skills to finish a game. Short of devs in locations without studios, most developers should start their career making portfolio pieces to get a job. Too often people think of Indie dev as an intro into the industry: but that is like starting a restaurant to "break into" the food service industry.
  - Impossible 6y ago
    It's reasonable to expect someone who is new to the industry to make a small game, so a better analogy might be expecting someone to be a decent home cook before getting a good service job. I agree though when you start talking about game dev as a business. Although people start successful businesses from cooking in their home, it's highly unlikely that they'll get it off the ground, let alone be successful.
sokoloff 6y ago
Same way you fund any other 5-to-9 creative micro-business or passion. If you’re an unknown, no one is lining up to pay you to develop a prototype of your game idea, any more than they would if you were getting started in fine art or music. How do other people fund their band practice or painting or pottery passion? If you already have a computer and can program, your prototype probably costs less money and time than what those endeavors cost those artists.
failrate 6y ago
Self fund your prototype. Do not spend a lot of money on programmers, designers, and artists. Time box your prototype. No more than a year.
mathgladiator 6y ago
I'll provide my answer: work in high stress low supply work and build capital. I've spent a decade in infrastructure. Beyond the ego lift of working on big things, it's not fun work. The good news is the grind is open to all skin colors! Slap that pager on your hip and prepare for a rough night! Once you have enough capital, you can leverage the market to provide an infinite funding stream. PLUS, as a disciplined engineer, you have the highest cost skill along with the ability to not make mistakes. The risk is that you may find yourself giving into avarice and enjoying that high income stream from the enterprise market.

51 points by polm23 6y ago

TL;DR: by having some free time, saved up funds (or "lottery" like kickstarter) and then just doing it. It's like with prototypes in any other area. You have idea, you either convince someone that it's good (typically with alredy working prototype, which precludes funding for prototypes) or use your own time/funds. I wish there could be other way. Maybe someday UBI will give us that.

omniscient_oce 6y ago
and be a white man apparently
- puddingnomeat 6y ago
  what is that supposed to mean?
  - pmichaud 6y ago
    Read the article, it weirdly shoehorns the “white male” thing in there between “we used savings when possible and worked 75 hour weeks until we had something to show.”
    - angrais 6y ago
      How does that quote relate to being white?? Are you implying that non-white or female people can't save money and prototype an idea? I'm lost.
      - omniscient_oce 6y ago
        Did you read the article? It quotes a Twitter conversation where a user asks for specifically white male experiences about creating a game studio / prototype. In general the answers basically amount to "I worked extremely hard, like 75hr weeks. Worked full time job whilst doing it; took multiple years before things started to work out" and then the article again tries to shoehorn the white male narrative to invalidate the answers. "other job / parents covering tuition / lack of dependents to support" are hardly exclusive to one gender or skin colour.
      - imnotjames 6y ago
        The article starts off by saying they want to poll white men, because marginalized developers are struggling. It includes quotes from people such as this: > I think most local white dudes > don't think of a prototype as something they "funded". They > ”just made it” because they had > time, space and hardware. Generally, refers to hidden privilege throughout as subtext. If you're white and male you have more access to these kinds of opportunities, etc.
        Danieru 6y ago
        > kinds of opportunities The irony of course being "working for free on personal project after work" is not an opportunity. No doubt I am the exact class of "white dude" the article is talking about. My "funding" story is super boring. I worked on my game after a full day of work and after getting kids to bed. Spend savings from day job on commissioned art to make the game pretty, after a couple years you should have a game worth players time. If "having job" counts as privilege then sure it requires privilege, to the exact extent paying rent does too. PS: Occasionally commenters say "I program all day and have no energy to program at home". To which I can only warn: games programming is not what you want.
faeyanpiraat 6y ago
It might be controversial, but are you sure the current way is wrong? If you did not have to consider financial viability of a project, then more people would make more random stuff, which of course would produce more useful stuff, because the sample size increases, but there would also be more useless garbage. The question is whether and in what direction/magnitude the signal to noise ratio would change in the UBI scenario.
- yetihehe 6y ago
  > It might be controversial, but are you sure the current way is wrong? No, current way is the most optimal I can think of in current situation. There are better ways, but not widely implementable currently. As for more garbage - yes, there would be more noise, but ALSO more signal (in my humble opinion). Signal in this case is useful things, which would be multiplied by usability, which is a net win for me.

tubularhells 6y ago

These privilege bashing articles are really cringe. At what point do we call this sexism/racism?

angrais 6y ago
Can you provide some examples from the article where sexism and racism occurs? I'm not seeing it
- xu_ituairo 6y ago
  Up to you whether you think this is racist, but the article does invoke generalizations about race and gender through this quote here: > [To be honest] I think most local white dudes don't think of a prototype as something they "funded". They ”just made it” because they had time, space and hardware. Did their other job/parents covering tuition/lack of dependents to support/etc allow that? Yeah, but they can't see how it paid.” Personally, I imagine class or wealth has more to do with being able to bootstrap a game than skin color. And I imagine the barriers to entry have been lowering steeply.
  - ycombinete 6y ago
    For what it’s worth, that quote is from Dislekcia. He is a white developer from South Africa, where class/wealth is still extremely correlated with race, due to obvious historical reasons.
  - admissionsguy 6y ago
    It's all about race, just look at all those white dudes from Polish villages cranking out one prototype after another, swimming in the vast oceans of opportunity. Contrast that with the daily struggle any person of colour must endure to survive in, say, Seattle. Unfathomable.
    - elefanten 6y ago
      This is an underrated comment. The blindingly American framework in these discussions is in itself bigoted — it completely ignores countervailing evidence that comes from adopting a global perspective.

jimmySixDOF 6y ago

It's a Chicken-or-the-Egg problem. You need talent and resources to develop your Prototype but those talents and resources improve dramatically if there is a Prototype to play with. Catch 22. The Makers Dilemma. A microscale version of what Peter Thiel calls "Zero to One" - as in getting from nothing now to something new. The post is based on a great tweet thread full of inspiring stories of grit and determination; but as far as starting up anything in any person's garage anywhere, you may just as well be saying that water is wet.

Danieru 6y ago
> talent and resources to develop your Prototype Developing the required talent and resources is best done working a day job. Go work as a cog in a game making team, they'll cover your weaknesses and build your strengths. Attempting to make a game while also "making your skills" will result all early work being vastly interior to later work. If getting employment on a team is impossible that points to a bigger issue: you need at least 1 skill to get hired but you need 12+ skills to finish a game. Short of devs in locations without studios, most developers should start their career making portfolio pieces to get a job. Too often people think of Indie dev as an intro into the industry: but that is like starting a restaurant to "break into" the food service industry.
- Impossible 6y ago
  It's reasonable to expect someone who is new to the industry to make a small game, so a better analogy might be expecting someone to be a decent home cook before getting a good service job. I agree though when you start talking about game dev as a business. Although people start successful businesses from cooking in their home, it's highly unlikely that they'll get it off the ground, let alone be successful.

sokoloff 6y ago

Same way you fund any other 5-to-9 creative micro-business or passion. If you’re an unknown, no one is lining up to pay you to develop a prototype of your game idea, any more than they would if you were getting started in fine art or music. How do other people fund their band practice or painting or pottery passion? If you already have a computer and can program, your prototype probably costs less money and time than what those endeavors cost those artists.

failrate 6y ago

Self fund your prototype. Do not spend a lot of money on programmers, designers, and artists. Time box your prototype. No more than a year.

mathgladiator 6y ago

I'll provide my answer: work in high stress low supply work and build capital. I've spent a decade in infrastructure. Beyond the ego lift of working on big things, it's not fun work. The good news is the grind is open to all skin colors! Slap that pager on your hip and prepare for a rough night! Once you have enough capital, you can leverage the market to provide an infinite funding stream. PLUS, as a disciplined engineer, you have the highest cost skill along with the ability to not make mistakes. The risk is that you may find yourself giving into avarice and enjoying that high income stream from the enterprise market.