5 ms·

Price is the biggest factor. You can get 10 cores with Intel for cheaper than 8 with AMD, plus with Intel you get integrated graphics as well which is really im

Price is the biggest factor. You can get 10 cores with Intel for cheaper than 8 with AMD, plus with Intel you get integrated graphics as well which is really important right now considering the GPU shortage. Also, Intel allows virtual GPUs for virtualization in QEMU which AMD won't do.

moreira 6y ago
“Choose Intel because it’s cheaper than AMD” is one of those arguments that make you realise how quickly the world changes.
- dwohnitmok 6y ago
  The whole situation is a kind of surreal 180-degree turn of what things looked like 5+ years ago and a testament to how far AMD has come. "Yeah go with Intel if you don't need top performance because the CPUs offer more[0], but slower cores, albeit with much higher power draw and a decent-enough integrated GPU at a cheaper price point." Are you sure we're not talking about early 2010s era AMD APUs? [0]: There are as many caveats here as there were 10 years ago for AMD.
- redisman 6y ago
  It does make sense though given that they’re still cashing in on their mature process when AMD is in the TSMC 7nm bidding war
walrus01 6y ago
If I wanted more than 8 cores, the 12-core ryzen 5900X is $549, can you really get an intel 10-core cpu for the same price, or within 50 bucks plus or minus, that performs better? I'm seeing the i9-10900K for $467, but in terms of dollars/performance per core I think it's still behind the ryzen which costs $82 more. https://www.techspot.com/review/2132-amd-ryzen-5900x/ https://www.techspot.com/review/2132-amd-ryzen-5900x/
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  The biggest issue you're going to run into, is that the 5900x may be $549 retail or whatever, but where are you going to buy one? I recently opted for a pre-built 4600G PC, and the 4700G is a great price point too... unfortunately AMD decided to really open these up to OEMs.
- millstone 6y ago
  Can you get the 5900X at all?
  - encryptluks2 6y ago
    Not to mention, where would you get an adequate GPU to go along with it unless you already have one.
    - theodric 6y ago
      GPU is not a prerequisite unless you're into gaming or ML. For someone like me, a GeForce 8800GT is sufficient, but I'll take all the cores and RAM I can get.
      - w7 6y ago
        Some form of GPU with modern display out is needed for some multi-monitor setups (mostly 4k), even if you don't do ML or gaming. Unfortunately there are also many motherboards out there that only support running one 4k monitor at 60 Hz even if the integrated graphics support more.
        egeozcan 6y ago
        if you are going to use the GPU solely for the video (output) acceleration then you still have many options that can do that but (fortunately?) can't mine digital currency efficiently.
        6y ago
hnISmongoguy 6y ago
Oh wow, I didn't know HN still had knowledgeable commentators! (I thought it was a competition to say BLUE COMPANY BAD GREEN COMPANY GOOD in various ways). So OP assuming I still want to buy an AMD because of its ECC support, (and can get my hands on a GPU), can you point me somewhere so that I can read about the last point you made. (EDIT: haven't researched but https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics has integrated?) Can you also list any other factors that I should weight in my decision, specifically against AMD? I do wonder how good the secure enclave offerings of both platforms are. So far I am left believing that Intel's is actually mature and AMDs is not.
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  If you had asked me about NVIDIA, since I run Wayland on Linux, I would have probably been much more biased. Regarding the last point, you can learn more about it here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GVT-g https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GVT-g Or, on their official GitHub Wiki: https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/wiki/GVTg_Setup_Guide https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/wiki/GVTg_Setup_Guide AMD's similar MxGPU is only available on Radeon Pro and their Workstation graphics: https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-virtual-graphics https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-virtual-graphics Regarding other factors to consider, I really don't have anything else. If ECC is important, then as you mentioned Intel doesn't offer ECC on these chipsets. Additionally, AMD's advanced security features like memory guard is only available on the PRO processors, however there are versions of the 4650GE Pro and 4750GE Pro for a descent price point: https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/pro-security https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/pro-security More advanced capabilities like SEV are only supported by EPYC from what I can tell, which is what various cloud providers are now using for confidential computing: https://www.amd.com/en/processors/amd-secure-encrypted-virtualization https://www.amd.com/en/processors/amd-secure-encrypted-virtu... Intel offers SGX on most of their consumer chips, but it has been plagued with issues and exploits in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions
  - my123 6y ago
qbasic_forever 6y ago
I'm just cracking a smile and almost laughing at the thought that 25 years ago I wanted an Intel Pentium but had to settle for a cheaper AMD 586 clone that ran hotter and performed worse. My, my, my how the tables have turned on Intel...
kyriakos 6y ago
AMD needs to integrate basic gpu in its higher end CPUs. With the current gpu prices where even old low end models are selling for double it will make sense for anyone needing good desktop experience without need for a fast gpu otherwise AMD is missing a market segment.
- pantalaimon 6y ago
  There is no shortage on dedicated low end GPUs.
  - chronogram 6y ago
    There is in the Netherlands it seems. The only one available AMD one is a RX 580 for €669, the only available Nvidia one is a €109 GT 1030. The GT 710 cards seem like a huge downgrade in terms of display options compared to my laptop’s integrated graphics.
    - kyriakos 6y ago
      Considering I bought an RX 580 for under 300 euro when it came out, the shortage is quite real unfortunately on all gpu levels.
    - pantalaimon 6y ago
      Where did you look? RX 550 seems to be readily available https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&v=l&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&sort=p&bl1_id=30&xf=5425_1 https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&v=l&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=...
      - chronogram 6y ago
        Like I said, in the Netherlands. I looked at a couple of the biggest stores and looked at what was available to be picked up or sent over right away. I did recheck and found one single store that sells a RX 550 for €95. Look (warning illegal cookie wall): https://tweakers.net/videokaarten/vergelijken/#filter:q1ZKSc3JLEstqgzJzE31TaxQsjLUUcovSkktcstMzUlRslIqKMrMKlaCCgbnF5UAxRKLk-EiBanJnkB1ukB9BYnpqcGZValAQwwMdEA6k1N9M_OUrAxqAQ https://tweakers.net/videokaarten/vergelijken/#filter:q1ZKSc...
philliphaydon 6y ago
Ah, 11700k is 8 core, like the 5800X??
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  Yep
effie 6y ago
> Intel allows virtual GPUs for virtualization in QEMU which AMD won't do. What is the level of capabilities we can expect from this? How many simultaneous VMs can use the Intel GPU?
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  I'd expect similar capabilities to the host GPU. In terms of how many virtual GPUs can you use with acceleration, unless you're trying to run graphics-intensive tasks on multiple VMs then you're mostly limited by your RAM. Here is more information for the Intel UHD 630: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/uhd_graphics/630 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/uhd_graphics/630

moreira 6y ago

“Choose Intel because it’s cheaper than AMD” is one of those arguments that make you realise how quickly the world changes.

dwohnitmok 6y ago
The whole situation is a kind of surreal 180-degree turn of what things looked like 5+ years ago and a testament to how far AMD has come. "Yeah go with Intel if you don't need top performance because the CPUs offer more[0], but slower cores, albeit with much higher power draw and a decent-enough integrated GPU at a cheaper price point." Are you sure we're not talking about early 2010s era AMD APUs? [0]: There are as many caveats here as there were 10 years ago for AMD.
redisman 6y ago
It does make sense though given that they’re still cashing in on their mature process when AMD is in the TSMC 7nm bidding war

walrus01 6y ago

If I wanted more than 8 cores, the 12-core ryzen 5900X is $549, can you really get an intel 10-core cpu for the same price, or within 50 bucks plus or minus, that performs better? I'm seeing the i9-10900K for $467, but in terms of dollars/performance per core I think it's still behind the ryzen which costs $82 more. https://www.techspot.com/review/2132-amd-ryzen-5900x/ https://www.techspot.com/review/2132-amd-ryzen-5900x/

encryptluks2 6y ago
The biggest issue you're going to run into, is that the 5900x may be $549 retail or whatever, but where are you going to buy one? I recently opted for a pre-built 4600G PC, and the 4700G is a great price point too... unfortunately AMD decided to really open these up to OEMs.
millstone 6y ago
Can you get the 5900X at all?
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  Not to mention, where would you get an adequate GPU to go along with it unless you already have one.
  - theodric 6y ago
    GPU is not a prerequisite unless you're into gaming or ML. For someone like me, a GeForce 8800GT is sufficient, but I'll take all the cores and RAM I can get.
    - w7 6y ago
      Some form of GPU with modern display out is needed for some multi-monitor setups (mostly 4k), even if you don't do ML or gaming. Unfortunately there are also many motherboards out there that only support running one 4k monitor at 60 Hz even if the integrated graphics support more.
      - egeozcan 6y ago
        if you are going to use the GPU solely for the video (output) acceleration then you still have many options that can do that but (fortunately?) can't mine digital currency efficiently.
        6y ago

hnISmongoguy 6y ago

Oh wow, I didn't know HN still had knowledgeable commentators! (I thought it was a competition to say BLUE COMPANY BAD GREEN COMPANY GOOD in various ways). So OP assuming I still want to buy an AMD because of its ECC support, (and can get my hands on a GPU), can you point me somewhere so that I can read about the last point you made. (EDIT: haven't researched but https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics has integrated?) Can you also list any other factors that I should weight in my decision, specifically against AMD? I do wonder how good the secure enclave offerings of both platforms are. So far I am left believing that Intel's is actually mature and AMDs is not.

encryptluks2 6y ago
If you had asked me about NVIDIA, since I run Wayland on Linux, I would have probably been much more biased. Regarding the last point, you can learn more about it here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GVT-g https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GVT-g Or, on their official GitHub Wiki: https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/wiki/GVTg_Setup_Guide https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/wiki/GVTg_Setup_Guide AMD's similar MxGPU is only available on Radeon Pro and their Workstation graphics: https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-virtual-graphics https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-virtual-graphics Regarding other factors to consider, I really don't have anything else. If ECC is important, then as you mentioned Intel doesn't offer ECC on these chipsets. Additionally, AMD's advanced security features like memory guard is only available on the PRO processors, however there are versions of the 4650GE Pro and 4750GE Pro for a descent price point: https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/pro-security https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/pro-security More advanced capabilities like SEV are only supported by EPYC from what I can tell, which is what various cloud providers are now using for confidential computing: https://www.amd.com/en/processors/amd-secure-encrypted-virtualization https://www.amd.com/en/processors/amd-secure-encrypted-virtu... Intel offers SGX on most of their consumer chips, but it has been plagued with issues and exploits in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions
- my123 6y ago

qbasic_forever 6y ago

I'm just cracking a smile and almost laughing at the thought that 25 years ago I wanted an Intel Pentium but had to settle for a cheaper AMD 586 clone that ran hotter and performed worse. My, my, my how the tables have turned on Intel...

kyriakos 6y ago

AMD needs to integrate basic gpu in its higher end CPUs. With the current gpu prices where even old low end models are selling for double it will make sense for anyone needing good desktop experience without need for a fast gpu otherwise AMD is missing a market segment.

pantalaimon 6y ago
There is no shortage on dedicated low end GPUs.
- chronogram 6y ago
  There is in the Netherlands it seems. The only one available AMD one is a RX 580 for €669, the only available Nvidia one is a €109 GT 1030. The GT 710 cards seem like a huge downgrade in terms of display options compared to my laptop’s integrated graphics.
  - kyriakos 6y ago
    Considering I bought an RX 580 for under 300 euro when it came out, the shortage is quite real unfortunately on all gpu levels.
  - pantalaimon 6y ago
    Where did you look? RX 550 seems to be readily available https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&v=l&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&sort=p&bl1_id=30&xf=5425_1 https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&v=l&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=...
    - chronogram 6y ago
      Like I said, in the Netherlands. I looked at a couple of the biggest stores and looked at what was available to be picked up or sent over right away. I did recheck and found one single store that sells a RX 550 for €95. Look (warning illegal cookie wall): https://tweakers.net/videokaarten/vergelijken/#filter:q1ZKSc3JLEstqgzJzE31TaxQsjLUUcovSkktcstMzUlRslIqKMrMKlaCCgbnF5UAxRKLk-EiBanJnkB1ukB9BYnpqcGZValAQwwMdEA6k1N9M_OUrAxqAQ https://tweakers.net/videokaarten/vergelijken/#filter:q1ZKSc...

philliphaydon 6y ago

Ah, 11700k is 8 core, like the 5800X??

encryptluks2 6y ago
Yep

effie 6y ago

> Intel allows virtual GPUs for virtualization in QEMU which AMD won't do. What is the level of capabilities we can expect from this? How many simultaneous VMs can use the Intel GPU?

encryptluks2 6y ago
I'd expect similar capabilities to the host GPU. In terms of how many virtual GPUs can you use with acceleration, unless you're trying to run graphics-intensive tasks on multiple VMs then you're mostly limited by your RAM. Here is more information for the Intel UHD 630: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/uhd_graphics/630 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/uhd_graphics/630