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There are six basic problems with the ‘Uyghur genocide’ narrative

6 points by dlcmh 6y ago

stakkur 6y ago
At a certain point, empires play chess and tell their people that it's a checker game.
ggm 6y ago
A related story is the human demographics analysis of surplus mortality and child birth rates in post 68 China. The numbers say that the scale of deaths in Mao's famine cannot be what was projected by some people because the traces in population stats don't support it, one child family not withstanding. The argument gets swamped in "you heartless monster" arguments, comparisons to the holomodor, anti communist fervor. It's impossible to debate. I believe Uigher repression is happening. I'm not a denialist or a revisionist about this problem. China has a lot of problems. We're getting a snow job on a structural fuckup of gigantic proportions from a political beaurocacy wiring itself into place against the coming storm of intergenerational change.
_pwux 6y ago
If he has six criticisms, he picked a terrible one to lead with. People will assume that's his strongest argument and it's a weak one. The much stronger argument is that Zenz is a crazed religious propagandist.
- BelenusMordred 6y ago
  I try hard to avoid this topic on HN but the 1st argument is: > 1. The logic problem: no genocide in history has ever occurred amidst rising population, life expectancy, and income of those supposedly victimized > the average annual population growth (of Uyghurs) is 1.94%, which is considered extremely rapid, and is close to the peak numbers for population growth globally, seen in the late 1960s Interested why you see this as a bad leading argument against using the phrase "genocide"? Also you say: > The much stronger argument is that Zenz is a crazed religious propagandist. Zenz's motivations or religious leaning is irrelevant, if you cant argue with the research papers he puts out then it only makes one side look bad here. Most of his work is pure OSINT stuff from Chinese local government websites.
a0-prw 6y ago
Nice to see a rational response to 5 eyes propaganda. Thank you, Asatar Bair

6 points by dlcmh 6y ago

At a certain point, empires play chess and tell their people that it's a checker game.

ggm 6y ago

A related story is the human demographics analysis of surplus mortality and child birth rates in post 68 China. The numbers say that the scale of deaths in Mao's famine cannot be what was projected by some people because the traces in population stats don't support it, one child family not withstanding. The argument gets swamped in "you heartless monster" arguments, comparisons to the holomodor, anti communist fervor. It's impossible to debate. I believe Uigher repression is happening. I'm not a denialist or a revisionist about this problem. China has a lot of problems. We're getting a snow job on a structural fuckup of gigantic proportions from a political beaurocacy wiring itself into place against the coming storm of intergenerational change.

_pwux 6y ago

If he has six criticisms, he picked a terrible one to lead with. People will assume that's his strongest argument and it's a weak one. The much stronger argument is that Zenz is a crazed religious propagandist.

BelenusMordred 6y ago
I try hard to avoid this topic on HN but the 1st argument is: > 1. The logic problem: no genocide in history has ever occurred amidst rising population, life expectancy, and income of those supposedly victimized > the average annual population growth (of Uyghurs) is 1.94%, which is considered extremely rapid, and is close to the peak numbers for population growth globally, seen in the late 1960s Interested why you see this as a bad leading argument against using the phrase "genocide"? Also you say: > The much stronger argument is that Zenz is a crazed religious propagandist. Zenz's motivations or religious leaning is irrelevant, if you cant argue with the research papers he puts out then it only makes one side look bad here. Most of his work is pure OSINT stuff from Chinese local government websites.

a0-prw 6y ago

Nice to see a rational response to 5 eyes propaganda. Thank you, Asatar Bair