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The report said the parent was working three jobs. I don’t know how we can expect someone like this to be a good parent. The blame here at least partly goes to

The report said the parent was working three jobs. I don’t know how we can expect someone like this to be a good parent. The blame here at least partly goes to a system that doesn’t provide all parents with the resources to raise successful children.

macspoofing 6y ago
It's the system's fault. It's society's fault. It's the school board's fault. It's the school's fault. It's the teacher's fault. Who else's fault is it?
- richwater 6y ago
  Everyone but the parents
  - umvi 6y ago
    I think the argument is yes it's the parents' fault. But that's not something we can directly fix. We can directly fix school budgets and stuff so that's what gets the blame. How do you fix broken families from a government perspective?
    - lurquer 6y ago
      Abolish divorce, criminalize adultery, castrate men who knock up women out of wedlock... Something less drastic? How about this.. Look at this thread. You’ll read all kinds of excuses for and blame of the mother. Yet nobody mentioned the father. A father — under our system — faces no penalty for neglecting a child. None. In a custody order where the mother has primary, the father has NO OBLIgATION to see the kid. This is so engrained in our culture that, like I said, the thread doesn’t even mention a father...
      - rayiner 6y ago
        Harsh but true. The social damage caused by normalizing the notion that fathers don’t need to raise their kids is truly monumental.
        nate_meurer 6y ago
        Some would say it's the single biggest problem. A big chicken and egg problem-- fathers abandon boys who then expect to abandon their own kids, and girls who expect to be abandoned by the fathers of their own children. Can't really have a healthy human culture with that going on.
      - umvi 6y ago
        Yeah, it's messed up, I agree. Not sure how you can force the father to help, especially if the father is also a teen. Maybe flip a coin at the child's birth, heads the mother is 100% responsible, tails the father is 100% responsible. Maybe then we would have an equal number of single fathers raising kids as single mothers.
        lurquer 6y ago
        You don't need to 'force the father to help' if the law deters illgitmate children in the first place. In my line of work, I know of men who have upwards of a dozen children from just as many women. There is nothing in the law that deters this activity. Nothing. There used to be. And, when there was, it didn't happen. Penises and Vaginas, orgasms and lust, haven't changed one iota in the past 10,000 years. I have little patience for those who wring their hands, fretting about how to stop this insanity. We know exactly how to stop it. You can open any legal code older than 100 years and see exactly how it is stopped. The fact is, this society has made the deliberate and intentional decision to eradicate any responsibility on the part of men, leaving women absolutely fucked (and the daughters of these women even more screwed.) Ironcially, it was all done in the name of feminism.
        roninhacker 6y ago
        Er...what was there in the law?
        woofie11 6y ago
        Well: * The law treated illegitimate children as illegitimate. It was harsh to be born out of wedlock. (https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/inheritance-rights-for-legitimate-and-illegitimate-children-47186 https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/inheritance-rights-for-leg...). No child support. No inheritance. Etc. * Until recently, there was no no-fault divorce. You couldn't up-and-leave a marriage without good cause. If your husband was beating you or your wife committed adultery, that was a valid reason. If you got bored, existential ennui, or married for child support in the first place, you were SOL unless the other party agreed. People were expected to make it work. * All sorts of fraud laws around sex and sexual behavior. If we had sex because I promised to marry you, I was expected to marry you. Marriage was viewed as a legal agreement. ... and so on. Most of it had problems, but there were some good ideas in there too. Adapting those to a 21st century framework of equal rights would be challenge, both intellectually and politically. There was a history of perverse, unintended consequences, intertwined changes, etc. and a discussion like this would be a political hot potato. Divorce is also a massive industry and political lobby. It intertwines itself with social justice and feminism, so it's hard to tease out, but a lot of work is actively done to break up families, since lawyers, guardians ad litem, etc. profit. A lot of that hits low-income families, despite low-income divorce happening without bringing this industry in.
      - nate_meurer 6y ago
        That is interesting. In this case, it's quite possible the father is in prison.
    - mlyle 6y ago
      Yah. Because these broken families are going to produce more broken students next generation. The only option is to fix the system somehow.
    - SamPatt 6y ago
      Maybe we shouldn't be expecting the government to solve every problem in society, and the fact that we have this expectation might actually be making the problems worse by not allowing other non-governmental forces to play out?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- brnt 6y ago
  The only thing at fault is the cultural need to isolate fault. We've created a society, a system far too complex for such simple attributions. You're only fooling yourself if you blame any one of those parties. A whole system analysis and solution is the only way to make meaningful progress.
- why_Mr_Anderson 6y ago
  I think we should blame Canada! from South Park movie for those who didn't get the reference, it's scary how relevant it still is
Alupis 6y ago
The system did provide the resources to raise successful children. This parent chose to ignore all of it. Parents have to care for a child to do well (or even mediocre) in school. A child isn't going to choose to do difficult homework in lieu of video games if left up to their own choices. If we examined the parent's school grades, we'd probably find a similarity, unfortunately. Same with the parent's parents. All this ultimately leads to working 3+ low-skill/low-education jobs just to keep a roof over your head. Every statistic about high school graduation rates firmly says so.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pvaldes 6y ago
> I don’t know how we can expect someone like this to be a good parent. You either are or not. My bet would be that the parent is fully aware, but ashamed and in denial about the situation. A busy mother is still a mother. Should know when their son is lying. She could be tricked for a month, for one year maybe, but when 4 entire years passed and she claims that didn't suspected anything... either she barely talks in the dinner with the boy about his day or she carefully circumnavigated the theme and don't really wanted to know the details of his education. And some parents just don't like the school system. I know a case of a divorced mother that deliberately boycotted the education of her daughter repeatedly asking her to be at home so she didn't feel alone. The outraged school wanted to do a point and the truant girl had to repeated several years, with the same outcome and less effort put on it each year. Everybody, was relieved when she eventually reached the legal age, was dumped from the school, show the middle finger to everybody and keep with their former life (Partied hard, socialized a lot, found a partner and married). We could say that she is doing fine, in fact.
- cannabis_sam 6y ago
  >You either are or not. This is a lie you tell yourself to be able to continue to look down on people. In the real world, people are affected by their circumstances, regardless of whether they have the ability to change them.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    > This is a lie you tell yourself to be able to... (unrelated bad thing, you should be ashamed, blah, blah, blah...). Not, this is a dichotomy covering all the possible outcomes, thus can't be a lie, by definition. Some people are good parents, other are terrible at parenthood. Where is the lie in my statement? There are millions of examples. If your son failed the school for four years, failed in ALL classes, didn't learn anything in your face, and you are clueless about that, don't blame other people. You have a responsibility in this train crash. You must calm down, do damage control and exercise more the communication part in your parenthood. You can be busy and tired, but this is no excuse for not showing the slighest interest for your boy's life, future plans, interests, or education. Not at this level. Being a good parent is more than being just a food providing machine.
RhysU 6y ago
Not looking at a report card for multiple years is not a resource issue.

macspoofing 6y ago

It's the system's fault. It's society's fault. It's the school board's fault. It's the school's fault. It's the teacher's fault. Who else's fault is it?

richwater 6y ago
Everyone but the parents
- umvi 6y ago
  I think the argument is yes it's the parents' fault. But that's not something we can directly fix. We can directly fix school budgets and stuff so that's what gets the blame. How do you fix broken families from a government perspective?
  - lurquer 6y ago
    Abolish divorce, criminalize adultery, castrate men who knock up women out of wedlock... Something less drastic? How about this.. Look at this thread. You’ll read all kinds of excuses for and blame of the mother. Yet nobody mentioned the father. A father — under our system — faces no penalty for neglecting a child. None. In a custody order where the mother has primary, the father has NO OBLIgATION to see the kid. This is so engrained in our culture that, like I said, the thread doesn’t even mention a father...
    - rayiner 6y ago
      Harsh but true. The social damage caused by normalizing the notion that fathers don’t need to raise their kids is truly monumental.
      - nate_meurer 6y ago
        Some would say it's the single biggest problem. A big chicken and egg problem-- fathers abandon boys who then expect to abandon their own kids, and girls who expect to be abandoned by the fathers of their own children. Can't really have a healthy human culture with that going on.
    - umvi 6y ago
      Yeah, it's messed up, I agree. Not sure how you can force the father to help, especially if the father is also a teen. Maybe flip a coin at the child's birth, heads the mother is 100% responsible, tails the father is 100% responsible. Maybe then we would have an equal number of single fathers raising kids as single mothers.
      - lurquer 6y ago
        You don't need to 'force the father to help' if the law deters illgitmate children in the first place. In my line of work, I know of men who have upwards of a dozen children from just as many women. There is nothing in the law that deters this activity. Nothing. There used to be. And, when there was, it didn't happen. Penises and Vaginas, orgasms and lust, haven't changed one iota in the past 10,000 years. I have little patience for those who wring their hands, fretting about how to stop this insanity. We know exactly how to stop it. You can open any legal code older than 100 years and see exactly how it is stopped. The fact is, this society has made the deliberate and intentional decision to eradicate any responsibility on the part of men, leaving women absolutely fucked (and the daughters of these women even more screwed.) Ironcially, it was all done in the name of feminism.
        roninhacker 6y ago
        Er...what was there in the law?
        woofie11 6y ago
        Well: * The law treated illegitimate children as illegitimate. It was harsh to be born out of wedlock. (https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/inheritance-rights-for-legitimate-and-illegitimate-children-47186 https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/inheritance-rights-for-leg...). No child support. No inheritance. Etc. * Until recently, there was no no-fault divorce. You couldn't up-and-leave a marriage without good cause. If your husband was beating you or your wife committed adultery, that was a valid reason. If you got bored, existential ennui, or married for child support in the first place, you were SOL unless the other party agreed. People were expected to make it work. * All sorts of fraud laws around sex and sexual behavior. If we had sex because I promised to marry you, I was expected to marry you. Marriage was viewed as a legal agreement. ... and so on. Most of it had problems, but there were some good ideas in there too. Adapting those to a 21st century framework of equal rights would be challenge, both intellectually and politically. There was a history of perverse, unintended consequences, intertwined changes, etc. and a discussion like this would be a political hot potato. Divorce is also a massive industry and political lobby. It intertwines itself with social justice and feminism, so it's hard to tease out, but a lot of work is actively done to break up families, since lawyers, guardians ad litem, etc. profit. A lot of that hits low-income families, despite low-income divorce happening without bringing this industry in.
    - nate_meurer 6y ago
      That is interesting. In this case, it's quite possible the father is in prison.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    Yah. Because these broken families are going to produce more broken students next generation. The only option is to fix the system somehow.
  - SamPatt 6y ago
    Maybe we shouldn't be expecting the government to solve every problem in society, and the fact that we have this expectation might actually be making the problems worse by not allowing other non-governmental forces to play out?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
brnt 6y ago
The only thing at fault is the cultural need to isolate fault. We've created a society, a system far too complex for such simple attributions. You're only fooling yourself if you blame any one of those parties. A whole system analysis and solution is the only way to make meaningful progress.
why_Mr_Anderson 6y ago
I think we should blame Canada! from South Park movie for those who didn't get the reference, it's scary how relevant it still is

Alupis 6y ago

The system did provide the resources to raise successful children. This parent chose to ignore all of it. Parents have to care for a child to do well (or even mediocre) in school. A child isn't going to choose to do difficult homework in lieu of video games if left up to their own choices. If we examined the parent's school grades, we'd probably find a similarity, unfortunately. Same with the parent's parents. All this ultimately leads to working 3+ low-skill/low-education jobs just to keep a roof over your head. Every statistic about high school graduation rates firmly says so.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pvaldes 6y ago

> I don’t know how we can expect someone like this to be a good parent. You either are or not. My bet would be that the parent is fully aware, but ashamed and in denial about the situation. A busy mother is still a mother. Should know when their son is lying. She could be tricked for a month, for one year maybe, but when 4 entire years passed and she claims that didn't suspected anything... either she barely talks in the dinner with the boy about his day or she carefully circumnavigated the theme and don't really wanted to know the details of his education. And some parents just don't like the school system. I know a case of a divorced mother that deliberately boycotted the education of her daughter repeatedly asking her to be at home so she didn't feel alone. The outraged school wanted to do a point and the truant girl had to repeated several years, with the same outcome and less effort put on it each year. Everybody, was relieved when she eventually reached the legal age, was dumped from the school, show the middle finger to everybody and keep with their former life (Partied hard, socialized a lot, found a partner and married). We could say that she is doing fine, in fact.

cannabis_sam 6y ago
>You either are or not. This is a lie you tell yourself to be able to continue to look down on people. In the real world, people are affected by their circumstances, regardless of whether they have the ability to change them.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  > This is a lie you tell yourself to be able to... (unrelated bad thing, you should be ashamed, blah, blah, blah...). Not, this is a dichotomy covering all the possible outcomes, thus can't be a lie, by definition. Some people are good parents, other are terrible at parenthood. Where is the lie in my statement? There are millions of examples. If your son failed the school for four years, failed in ALL classes, didn't learn anything in your face, and you are clueless about that, don't blame other people. You have a responsibility in this train crash. You must calm down, do damage control and exercise more the communication part in your parenthood. You can be busy and tired, but this is no excuse for not showing the slighest interest for your boy's life, future plans, interests, or education. Not at this level. Being a good parent is more than being just a food providing machine.

RhysU 6y ago

Not looking at a report card for multiple years is not a resource issue.