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> As more sites adopt TMTP for their own reasons Isn't this the problem in replacing almost any technology that we know is "broken", it is often too ingrained

> As more sites adopt TMTP for their own reasons Isn't this the problem in replacing almost any technology that we know is "broken", it is often too ingrained to be replaced easily.

networkimprov 6y ago
Consider the huge variety of messaging and discussion apps; it's relatively easy to embrace new communication tools. EDIT: you might never silence SMTP altogether, but a suitable protocol could supplant it for the great majority of its use cases.
- zerkten 6y ago
  You can embrace new tools and replace the old new tools. What you generally aren't able to do is to replace email not matter how hard you try. The appearance of email being replaced exists in some places, but you find pretty quickly that you can't survive without it because it's still getting used for some critical communication or process.
  - bjarneh 6y ago
    > What you generally aren't able to do is to replace email not matter how hard you try. The "new" email has been launched quite a few times now. It doesn't seem possible at this point unless all the major players agree on some new protocol which is seamlessly implemented in their mail services, while still allowing SMTP to function as a fallback to the improved protocol
    - networkimprov 6y ago
      References? I'm not aware of any alternative email protocol that's implemented, except TMTP. I don't believe closed-source, walled-garden services, which don't allow third-party clients or servers, really count as legitimate alternatives. There's Matrix, but that's a synchronization protocol for chatrooms, not a store-and-forward messaging scheme.
      - bjarneh 6y ago
        DMTP/DMAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Mail_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Mail_Alliance The stuff Ladar Levinson created after the Lavabit takedown, (famed for begin Snowden's email provider). Although I'm not just talking about email protocols; but additions or other improvements that always have the same problems (PGP encrypted email, or whatever Facebook tried to do when they reinvented email...)

> As more sites adopt TMTP for their own reasons Isn't this the problem in replacing almost any technology that we know is "broken", it is often too ingrained to be replaced easily.

networkimprov 6y ago

Consider the huge variety of messaging and discussion apps; it's relatively easy to embrace new communication tools. EDIT: you might never silence SMTP altogether, but a suitable protocol could supplant it for the great majority of its use cases.

zerkten 6y ago
You can embrace new tools and replace the old new tools. What you generally aren't able to do is to replace email not matter how hard you try. The appearance of email being replaced exists in some places, but you find pretty quickly that you can't survive without it because it's still getting used for some critical communication or process.
- bjarneh 6y ago
  > What you generally aren't able to do is to replace email not matter how hard you try. The "new" email has been launched quite a few times now. It doesn't seem possible at this point unless all the major players agree on some new protocol which is seamlessly implemented in their mail services, while still allowing SMTP to function as a fallback to the improved protocol
  - networkimprov 6y ago
    References? I'm not aware of any alternative email protocol that's implemented, except TMTP. I don't believe closed-source, walled-garden services, which don't allow third-party clients or servers, really count as legitimate alternatives. There's Matrix, but that's a synchronization protocol for chatrooms, not a store-and-forward messaging scheme.
    - bjarneh 6y ago
      DMTP/DMAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Mail_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Mail_Alliance The stuff Ladar Levinson created after the Lavabit takedown, (famed for begin Snowden's email provider). Although I'm not just talking about email protocols; but additions or other improvements that always have the same problems (PGP encrypted email, or whatever Facebook tried to do when they reinvented email...)