7 ms·

Folks are missing the bigger point: this student is in the top half of the class. This story isn't uncommon; its the norm there. Why? Because, probably, the s

Folks are missing the bigger point: this student is in the top half of the class. This story isn't uncommon; its the norm there. Why? Because, probably, the school is unsafe for students. Never mind blamethrowing who is at fault for truancy. When half the class is late/absent half the time, what can the county do? It's take an army of truancy officers to even begin to address.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago
Your larger point stands, but the phrase was "near top half". He was 62 out of 120.
- mlyle 6y ago
  So presumably he was very close to the median performance.
maxk42 6y ago
An army? There were 120 students in the class. Multiply by four classes and that's 480. Even if every student were truant a single truant officer could get to all of them within a single school year. Probably at most three or four of them would be all that's needed to stay on top of things there.
- edbob 6y ago
  What about the political fallout from pressing truancy charges against hundreds of minority students? Truancy, at least in my experience, involves fines and/or jail time.
  - jswizzy 6y ago
    for the parent
    - edbob 6y ago
      That varies by jurisdiction. But it doesn't matter much in this case, as pressing charges against hundreds of minority parents is just as unacceptable.
    - abenga 6y ago
      Because, obviously, sending the parent to jail will not at all affect the child. Americans' love for retributive justice is really weird.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Every day for 180 days. Lets not fool ourselves. The problem is endemic.
brighton36 6y ago
It could also be that there's a demographic of parents at that school that doesn't know that, the function of the school, is to teach the kids that 'better' students deserve opportunity.
monkeydreams 6y ago
When all you have is a hammer you end up with a lot of bent screws. I am not close enough to the situation to know what the root problem is, but I bet it can't be solved with LEO's of any stripe.
- dan-robertson 6y ago
  This is a bad analogy. If you have cut nails you will also bend them (or split the wood) if you only have a hammer and no way to drill pilot holes. If your screws are thin or you have pilot holes, you’ll do fine hammering them in. I think it’s generally better for one to write what one means rather than using stale or disjointed metaphors.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    The guy wrote an internet comment and his analogy was immediately logical to me. I actually had to read your response 3 times before I understood the problem. I think your standards are a little high for basic communication.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Not so for me. I was baffled. Wood screws are commonly hammered in. My Dad used to say "The threads are for removing them"
  - pc86 6y ago
    This might be the most stereotypical HN comment I've ever read. I can't wait to see it on r/programmingcirclejerk.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    > If your screws are thin ... you’ll do fine hammering them in. Wouldn't that depend on the hardness of the material you're hammering into? Even with woods, there are some very dense and hard ones around... ;)
  - monkeydreams 6y ago
tyingq 6y ago
Their principal, Kamala Carnes, left a different Baltimore school after a scandal where the school was giving students passing marks and diplomas. That might explain why this student was only moved all the way back to 9th grade recently. The initial plan to just shuffle everyone through got outed. https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/14-months-later-city-schools-grade-changing-investigation-still-incomplete https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/14-months-la...
- purple-again 6y ago
  Does that mean they took an 18 year old and put him back in class with 15 year olds expecting him to stay there for four more years from 19-22? That can’t be right. What does sent him back to the 9th grade mean in this context?
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    I would assume he would just have to get a ged at that point right?
  - tyingq 6y ago
    It varies in the US, but 21 is commonly the maximum age to be in a public high school. State by state data: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/statereform/tab5_1.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/statereform/tab5_1.asp Texas allows up to age 26...heh.
    - quantumsequoia 6y ago
      This lists the "maximum age limit to which free education must be offered" which may not be the same as the "maximum age limit to which free education can be offered" It's possible at age 22 the state is not required to provide him an education, but chooses to do so anyways
      - tyingq 6y ago
        It's a little hard to summarize as the rules are complex and different for each state. Here's Texas, for example: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/ED/htm/ED.25.htm https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/ED/htm/ED.25.htm
starkd 6y ago
Nothing new, as this has been going on for decades now. In Hartford, CT. they are lucky to get 50% attendance rate. And that's on the first day, and going door-to-door the day before reminding people that school begins the next day. Nothing to do with safety, it's no motivation. No parents they look up to telling them why they need to even be there.
lokar 6y ago
I think a major cause is the promotion. Once the student fails to master the 1st class, attending the next class is pointless. The student sees this, and acts accordingly.
- Bud 6y ago
  The promotion isn't the cause, here. It's a symptom of a societal collapse on many levels.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Well, sort of. Lower class mobility, employment instability, rising housing and medical costs, and the two income trap are all very real rips in the societal fabric. There are many scenarios where stable homes with good incomes fall apart. On the other hand, there are also plenty of examples of homes where kids were had where there was no stability or income necessary from the get go to provide them with the support they'd need to work their way through the educational system and come out successful on the other end. How do you address the elephant in the room of people who decide to have kids without the means and time to properly provide for them (which includes encouraging and cultivating a desire to pursue an education)? I fail to see an easy solution. Foster homes of well to do families that can put the resources and time into nurturing these kids towards a brighter future? More resources into educating folks to steer clear of parenthood if they're not adequately equipped for the job ahead?
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      > In the latter example, I fail to see an easy solution. Foster homes of well to do families that can put the resources and time into nurturing these kids towards a brighter future? More generous state support for low income families would go a long way. Better to help their existing family than to try and transplant them to a new one I would have thought (in most cases anyway)
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
exporectomy 6y ago
No, he's in the bottom half of his class. "near the top half" is the journalist trying to fool the reader.
- mcv 6y ago
  In the bottom half, but near the top half, so at the top of the bottom half. In other words: in the middle. That number makes it look like he's an average student, which he clearly isn't, if he never passed any of his classes.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Still in the middle. Almost half the class is worse than this guy.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago

Your larger point stands, but the phrase was "near top half". He was 62 out of 120.

mlyle 6y ago
So presumably he was very close to the median performance.

maxk42 6y ago

An army? There were 120 students in the class. Multiply by four classes and that's 480. Even if every student were truant a single truant officer could get to all of them within a single school year. Probably at most three or four of them would be all that's needed to stay on top of things there.

edbob 6y ago
What about the political fallout from pressing truancy charges against hundreds of minority students? Truancy, at least in my experience, involves fines and/or jail time.
- jswizzy 6y ago
  for the parent
  - edbob 6y ago
    That varies by jurisdiction. But it doesn't matter much in this case, as pressing charges against hundreds of minority parents is just as unacceptable.
  - abenga 6y ago
    Because, obviously, sending the parent to jail will not at all affect the child. Americans' love for retributive justice is really weird.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Every day for 180 days. Lets not fool ourselves. The problem is endemic.

brighton36 6y ago

It could also be that there's a demographic of parents at that school that doesn't know that, the function of the school, is to teach the kids that 'better' students deserve opportunity.

monkeydreams 6y ago

When all you have is a hammer you end up with a lot of bent screws. I am not close enough to the situation to know what the root problem is, but I bet it can't be solved with LEO's of any stripe.

dan-robertson 6y ago
This is a bad analogy. If you have cut nails you will also bend them (or split the wood) if you only have a hammer and no way to drill pilot holes. If your screws are thin or you have pilot holes, you’ll do fine hammering them in. I think it’s generally better for one to write what one means rather than using stale or disjointed metaphors.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  The guy wrote an internet comment and his analogy was immediately logical to me. I actually had to read your response 3 times before I understood the problem. I think your standards are a little high for basic communication.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Not so for me. I was baffled. Wood screws are commonly hammered in. My Dad used to say "The threads are for removing them"
- pc86 6y ago
  This might be the most stereotypical HN comment I've ever read. I can't wait to see it on r/programmingcirclejerk.
- justinclift 6y ago
  > If your screws are thin ... you’ll do fine hammering them in. Wouldn't that depend on the hardness of the material you're hammering into? Even with woods, there are some very dense and hard ones around... ;)
- monkeydreams 6y ago

tyingq 6y ago

Their principal, Kamala Carnes, left a different Baltimore school after a scandal where the school was giving students passing marks and diplomas. That might explain why this student was only moved all the way back to 9th grade recently. The initial plan to just shuffle everyone through got outed. https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/14-months-later-city-schools-grade-changing-investigation-still-incomplete https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/14-months-la...

purple-again 6y ago
Does that mean they took an 18 year old and put him back in class with 15 year olds expecting him to stay there for four more years from 19-22? That can’t be right. What does sent him back to the 9th grade mean in this context?
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  I would assume he would just have to get a ged at that point right?
- tyingq 6y ago
  It varies in the US, but 21 is commonly the maximum age to be in a public high school. State by state data: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/statereform/tab5_1.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/statereform/tab5_1.asp Texas allows up to age 26...heh.
  - quantumsequoia 6y ago
    This lists the "maximum age limit to which free education must be offered" which may not be the same as the "maximum age limit to which free education can be offered" It's possible at age 22 the state is not required to provide him an education, but chooses to do so anyways
    - tyingq 6y ago
      It's a little hard to summarize as the rules are complex and different for each state. Here's Texas, for example: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/ED/htm/ED.25.htm https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/ED/htm/ED.25.htm

starkd 6y ago

Nothing new, as this has been going on for decades now. In Hartford, CT. they are lucky to get 50% attendance rate. And that's on the first day, and going door-to-door the day before reminding people that school begins the next day. Nothing to do with safety, it's no motivation. No parents they look up to telling them why they need to even be there.

lokar 6y ago

I think a major cause is the promotion. Once the student fails to master the 1st class, attending the next class is pointless. The student sees this, and acts accordingly.

Bud 6y ago
The promotion isn't the cause, here. It's a symptom of a societal collapse on many levels.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Well, sort of. Lower class mobility, employment instability, rising housing and medical costs, and the two income trap are all very real rips in the societal fabric. There are many scenarios where stable homes with good incomes fall apart. On the other hand, there are also plenty of examples of homes where kids were had where there was no stability or income necessary from the get go to provide them with the support they'd need to work their way through the educational system and come out successful on the other end. How do you address the elephant in the room of people who decide to have kids without the means and time to properly provide for them (which includes encouraging and cultivating a desire to pursue an education)? I fail to see an easy solution. Foster homes of well to do families that can put the resources and time into nurturing these kids towards a brighter future? More resources into educating folks to steer clear of parenthood if they're not adequately equipped for the job ahead?
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    > In the latter example, I fail to see an easy solution. Foster homes of well to do families that can put the resources and time into nurturing these kids towards a brighter future? More generous state support for low income families would go a long way. Better to help their existing family than to try and transplant them to a new one I would have thought (in most cases anyway)
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago

exporectomy 6y ago

No, he's in the bottom half of his class. "near the top half" is the journalist trying to fool the reader.

mcv 6y ago
In the bottom half, but near the top half, so at the top of the bottom half. In other words: in the middle. That number makes it look like he's an average student, which he clearly isn't, if he never passed any of his classes.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Still in the middle. Almost half the class is worse than this guy.