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With a parent working 3 jobs (probably just to make ends meet), they at some point have to rely on the implied social contract (as dictated by the law): - That

With a parent working 3 jobs (probably just to make ends meet), they at some point have to rely on the implied social contract (as dictated by the law): - That the school will teach what they are required to teach - That the school will track absences/lates - That the school will notify the parent if they see that the child is falling behind at either of those Having seen similar cases myself, I can say almost definitively that one of the other huge parts going on here is that at some point the student fell behind and was ashamed to speak up. If no one is being accountable, students in this position can show up every day and still fail because they simply don‘t have the foundation to understand what’s being taught. It doesn’t take much at that point for them to simply disengage and stop showing up. By not being “disruptive” I would argue that they are more at risk of failing as these issues fly under the radar.

Alupis 6y ago
Are we assuming the school put zero effort into bringing these issues up with the parent? All the schools I attended would place an automated call to my parents if I was absent for a class or the day. Mid-Semester progress reports were mailed to my house for my parents to review. If a student fell severely behind, the teacher could request a conference with the parent. Perhaps... perhaps this school did none of that (hard to believe). But on some level, the parent has to actually give a sh*t about their child and their education. Working 3 jobs or whatever is not an excuse to be an absent parent. I'm close with several elementary school teachers, and we've had this discussion before. A parent that doesn't care at all, will nearly always yield a child that performs poorly, no matter how much individual attention the teacher applies to the child. Parents must be engaged in a child's upbringing - they are the primary role model for the child and are the only people that can enforce desired behaviors like doing homework instead of playing video games.
- aaplok 6y ago
  From the article it looks like that information was delivered through a web portal. My kids' school has a similar system and unexplained absences are notified through the portal. School reports are delivered there too, though at least for that we get an email notification asking us to access the portal. Why the report cannot be attached to the email is beyond my comprehension. Accessing that portal is a technological barrier not every parent can overcome. Judging by the extent of the problem in that particular school, it might be a common issue in the community it serves.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    Emails can be deleted, go to spam, go un-opened, etc. The content of the web portal cannot. I'm confident logging into a web portal isn't difficult, and I'm even more confident assistance would be provided if this parent had asked.
    - aaplok 6y ago
      16% of the US population is computer illiterate [0], mostly amongst the poor. If information is only accessible through a web portal you are de facto making it inaccessible to a significant minority. Sure the parents could take computer literacy courses, access internet at the library if they don't have access at home, or navigate the school bureaucracy (not easy and not always friendly, trust me!), and we could still play the blame game. But ultimately if we add enough friction that 50% of our users fail to engage, perhaps a review of the system is warranted. [0] https://www.air.org/resource/description-u-s-adults-who-are-not-digitally-literate https://www.air.org/resource/description-u-s-adults-who-are-...
      - selimthegrim 6y ago
        Actual functional literacy might be a problem too, let alone computer literacy. Although if she can operate an iPhone maybe not in this specific case.
  - WORLD_ENDS_SOON 6y ago
    I'm guessing information isn't put in the email because of federal privacy laws around education (FERPA). Email isn't considered a secure communication protocol since it isn't encrypted in transit, so schools can't email grades or other information related to education records. I'm guessing sending all messages through a secure web portal is just an easy way to avoid FERPA liability from the schools perspective.
    - aaplok 6y ago
      I'm not in the US but you make a good point. They probably need to confirm parents' identities. An easy and well advertised low tech solution would be good for low tech parents though.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Not every school is good. Yours may have been, but the article says this: > But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    The parent never scheduled the conference after clearly seeing it was requested. How is that the school's fault? And that's after this child received dozens of failing grades and hundreds of absences the parent also ignored. Instead of disciplining this child, the parent bought him a video game console and a giant wide-screen TV (shown in the article!). People need to take responsibility for their own inaction at some point.
    - joshspankit 6y ago
      It’s difficult to make either judgement with the information in this article. The teacher requested it: is parent saying that the request never happened? If the request did happen and it was only sent/seen once, where do the lawmakers draw the line between “The teacher asked once and the parent never took them up on it, therefore it’s the parent’s fault.” and “The school didn’t share what the concerns were and only tried to contact the parent once in 3 years. The school is at fault.”
warent 6y ago
Agree, I get the sense we're not getting the full picture here. There's some information / context missing
- bentcorner 6y ago
  On top of that, we don't know what the mother (who may be a single parent) needs to deal with on a day to day basis and how much cognitive load that is. Does her car need work? Does she even have a car? How much time does she spend commuting between three jobs? How much does heating/water/electricity take out of her paycheck? Can she afford to buy healthy groceries for her kids? Does she even have time to cook? I can guess, but I don't even know, and it doesn't feel right to judge her because of that. This lady is in a hole and sometimes I feel our society just throws a shovel at her and thinks poorly of her when she doesn't use it.
  - LunaSea 6y ago
    Wouldn't that be a argument for the kid to be placed into a foster home?
    - joshspankit 6y ago
      This is a really concerning (and common) response to the hypothetical situation where a parent is putting in non-stop effort to try to do what’s best for her kids.
      - LunaSea 6y ago
        But as in divorces the state cares about child well being not how much efforts the parents put in.
        joshspankit 6y ago
        I agree that the child’s well being should be primary concern, but I mean to say that if a parent is doing everything and anything we hope a parent would do, and they still can’t reach what the law says is a “minimum level of well being”, then that should really be looked at not as a failing of the parent, but as a failing of society.
alistairSH 6y ago
This is one of the best responses I've seen when this topic arises and people wonder who's failing whom. I'm tempted to copy/paste it into every other post about how the kid is a lazy bum.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  That’s high praise, thank you. I’m humbled. You (and anyone else) have my full and unrestricted permission to copy/paste it.
goldcd 6y ago
I'll agree to that. I mean I'll hold my hand up today, to clicking the "accept" on that meeting invites and attending - but not having an f'in clue how to solve the problem, so keep quiet. The immediate 'bad justification' is that if I didn't attend, I might get labelled as the problem. The 'more rational' justification is that by attending and listening I get a better understanding, and by meeting #2 and #3 hope I can contribute constructively. I know I'm definitely not going to be able to help by dodging the discussion. Now there are exceptions - if I think others are better able and willing to solve an important issue, or I think the issue is ultimately unimportant - but that's high risk. Like saying I don't need school, so I won't go.

Alupis 6y ago

Are we assuming the school put zero effort into bringing these issues up with the parent? All the schools I attended would place an automated call to my parents if I was absent for a class or the day. Mid-Semester progress reports were mailed to my house for my parents to review. If a student fell severely behind, the teacher could request a conference with the parent. Perhaps... perhaps this school did none of that (hard to believe). But on some level, the parent has to actually give a sh*t about their child and their education. Working 3 jobs or whatever is not an excuse to be an absent parent. I'm close with several elementary school teachers, and we've had this discussion before. A parent that doesn't care at all, will nearly always yield a child that performs poorly, no matter how much individual attention the teacher applies to the child. Parents must be engaged in a child's upbringing - they are the primary role model for the child and are the only people that can enforce desired behaviors like doing homework instead of playing video games.

aaplok 6y ago
From the article it looks like that information was delivered through a web portal. My kids' school has a similar system and unexplained absences are notified through the portal. School reports are delivered there too, though at least for that we get an email notification asking us to access the portal. Why the report cannot be attached to the email is beyond my comprehension. Accessing that portal is a technological barrier not every parent can overcome. Judging by the extent of the problem in that particular school, it might be a common issue in the community it serves.
- Alupis 6y ago
  Emails can be deleted, go to spam, go un-opened, etc. The content of the web portal cannot. I'm confident logging into a web portal isn't difficult, and I'm even more confident assistance would be provided if this parent had asked.
  - aaplok 6y ago
    16% of the US population is computer illiterate [0], mostly amongst the poor. If information is only accessible through a web portal you are de facto making it inaccessible to a significant minority. Sure the parents could take computer literacy courses, access internet at the library if they don't have access at home, or navigate the school bureaucracy (not easy and not always friendly, trust me!), and we could still play the blame game. But ultimately if we add enough friction that 50% of our users fail to engage, perhaps a review of the system is warranted. [0] https://www.air.org/resource/description-u-s-adults-who-are-not-digitally-literate https://www.air.org/resource/description-u-s-adults-who-are-...
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      Actual functional literacy might be a problem too, let alone computer literacy. Although if she can operate an iPhone maybe not in this specific case.
- WORLD_ENDS_SOON 6y ago
  I'm guessing information isn't put in the email because of federal privacy laws around education (FERPA). Email isn't considered a secure communication protocol since it isn't encrypted in transit, so schools can't email grades or other information related to education records. I'm guessing sending all messages through a secure web portal is just an easy way to avoid FERPA liability from the schools perspective.
  - aaplok 6y ago
    I'm not in the US but you make a good point. They probably need to confirm parents' identities. An easy and well advertised low tech solution would be good for low tech parents though.
colejohnson66 6y ago
Not every school is good. Yours may have been, but the article says this: > But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.
- Alupis 6y ago
  The parent never scheduled the conference after clearly seeing it was requested. How is that the school's fault? And that's after this child received dozens of failing grades and hundreds of absences the parent also ignored. Instead of disciplining this child, the parent bought him a video game console and a giant wide-screen TV (shown in the article!). People need to take responsibility for their own inaction at some point.
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    It’s difficult to make either judgement with the information in this article. The teacher requested it: is parent saying that the request never happened? If the request did happen and it was only sent/seen once, where do the lawmakers draw the line between “The teacher asked once and the parent never took them up on it, therefore it’s the parent’s fault.” and “The school didn’t share what the concerns were and only tried to contact the parent once in 3 years. The school is at fault.”

warent 6y ago

Agree, I get the sense we're not getting the full picture here. There's some information / context missing

bentcorner 6y ago
On top of that, we don't know what the mother (who may be a single parent) needs to deal with on a day to day basis and how much cognitive load that is. Does her car need work? Does she even have a car? How much time does she spend commuting between three jobs? How much does heating/water/electricity take out of her paycheck? Can she afford to buy healthy groceries for her kids? Does she even have time to cook? I can guess, but I don't even know, and it doesn't feel right to judge her because of that. This lady is in a hole and sometimes I feel our society just throws a shovel at her and thinks poorly of her when she doesn't use it.
- LunaSea 6y ago
  Wouldn't that be a argument for the kid to be placed into a foster home?
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    This is a really concerning (and common) response to the hypothetical situation where a parent is putting in non-stop effort to try to do what’s best for her kids.
    - LunaSea 6y ago
      But as in divorces the state cares about child well being not how much efforts the parents put in.
      - joshspankit 6y ago
        I agree that the child’s well being should be primary concern, but I mean to say that if a parent is doing everything and anything we hope a parent would do, and they still can’t reach what the law says is a “minimum level of well being”, then that should really be looked at not as a failing of the parent, but as a failing of society.

alistairSH 6y ago

This is one of the best responses I've seen when this topic arises and people wonder who's failing whom. I'm tempted to copy/paste it into every other post about how the kid is a lazy bum.

joshspankit 6y ago
That’s high praise, thank you. I’m humbled. You (and anyone else) have my full and unrestricted permission to copy/paste it.

goldcd 6y ago

I'll agree to that. I mean I'll hold my hand up today, to clicking the "accept" on that meeting invites and attending - but not having an f'in clue how to solve the problem, so keep quiet. The immediate 'bad justification' is that if I didn't attend, I might get labelled as the problem. The 'more rational' justification is that by attending and listening I get a better understanding, and by meeting #2 and #3 hope I can contribute constructively. I know I'm definitely not going to be able to help by dodging the discussion. Now there are exceptions - if I think others are better able and willing to solve an important issue, or I think the issue is ultimately unimportant - but that's high risk. Like saying I don't need school, so I won't go.